World of Banished

There was a discussion in the mod section about using particle systems to make cool effects.

I am bored, there fore decided to play around with the smoke, as you do. I figured I'd start this to document things, random things.

To start with, this is something for @RedKetchup and the Choo Choo mod. I apologize if you already know this, but it is late and I can't be bothered to go through old posts to see if you did it!

I made a new ChimneySmoke.rsc, called it 'MaritimesChimneySmoke.rsc' and put it in a 'Sherbrooke/ParticleSystems' folder. I then refer to this my sherbrooke house template rather than the vanilla chimney smoke so that I could play around with numbers to see what would happen. This is the first finding...

// emission
float _emissionRate = 1.0;
float _emissionAcceleration = 0.0;
float _emissionDrag = 1.0;
Time _emitterLifeTime = 0.0;

By changing the emission rate from 5.0 to 1.0, the smoke now comes out in shorted bursts rather than a more steady stream.

If I go further and change the emission rate to 0.5, it comes out very slow. The second smoke puff doesn't come out of the chimney until after the first has disappeared.

By changing this emission rate, Red's choo choo trains can have a steady puffing chimney rather than a continuous one.

Quote from: Necora on April 11, 2017, 06:47:53 PM
There was a discussion in the mod section about using particle systems to make cool effects.

I am bored, there fore decided to play around with the smoke, as you do. I figured I'd start this to document things, random things.

BTW - married to a sim dev myself I have seen some incredible products produced from sheer boredom.  :)
I also find that my lounge furniture has been rearranged or the kitchen is polished, it can be relatively hit & miss, haha.  :)

Good luck :)  I've been watching that thread for interest :)

Hmm, well it is actually a lot more limited than I anticipated.

I decided to set every value to 0 or 1 and change one by one. Apart from the previous emissions rate, which I ramped up to 10 for quite a solid line of smoke. With these settings, I get a horizontal line of smoke from a chimney. It seems I can't see how to change the direction of the smoke, it always seems to be going towards the 'top' of the map.

Or black clouds hanging around the chimney... getting closer to something that can be used as turbulence in the water.

IMPENDING DOOOM

But in all serious now, I did manage to make a nice bit of steam/haze/spray around the mill wheel... Getting closer to the foot of a waterfall!

I fell out of my chair laughing when I saw the IMPENDING DOOM picture. LMAO!!

Quote from: Necora on April 11, 2017, 07:10:28 PM
IMPENDING DOOOM

Winner!!! hahaha, that's awesome :D


@Necora I love the waterwheel too, I also sense of "closer" to my wish of a Steam boat, à la EmmyLou  (https://www.murrayriverpaddlesteamers.com.au/our-fleet/ps-emmylou/) (not a *cough*hint*cough*) ... 
There are a few waterwheeled mods ingame, what you would be able to achieve ...  awesome!!  Very inspiring!!

Quote from: Necora on April 11, 2017, 07:08:06 PMgetting closer to something that can be used as turbulence in the water.

Cool! Now for some more natural looking rocks, pebble and sand and we can make the creeks a lot more interesting with some rapids and stuff...  :D

* assuming you can turn them into "ploppable" items...

I have a nagging feeling that it is a blessing you are not modding Banished, @Paeng !

You have so many ideas it would make a new game.  ;)

In that case I'd say it's a shame :P! It might give us some wonderful things.

This is cool stuff Necora! It's nice to know that we can play around with how the smoke looks and behaves.

i think it takes both players and great modders to do that. if we don't play,we won't find new ideas.

So the steam for the mill came out really nicely in the end. The only problem is, there is a rather harsh line on the top of the water. It seems that the smoke doesn't go through the water.

@Paeng unfortunately, it seems that the particle system needs to be triggered by something. For example, smoke only comes from a chimney when someone is living there. The spray here only comes from the mill when it is being worked. I tried to make a decoration, but without a trigger nothing happened. I'm not sure if there is a way around that, I couldn't see anything in the code. Unless we give it a worker and have them tend to the stream!

What I did have a go at though is applying a foam texture I found on google image search to a simple plane. I made it -1m, and gave it the foliage material. Being underwater already makes it move due to the effect of the water, but adding the foliage material does give it some good motion on top of this. So you could have a few of these with different textures, all ghosted, and perhaps could make something that can pass for a rapids? I placed it next to one of the mill bridges in the image attached.

if it is ghosted you can say : true to the question (like my little torches and firecamps) but only if ghosted. it not ghosted and has a building time, it will appear at build01 before the building process will be completed.

true to what question?

@RedKetchup nvm, I went through the ROTP dev thread at CC and figured it out. If you debug place it, then it also works (can't test a ghost).

So what I will do is put together a few different types of river deco, package it up, and share it here for you all to see how it works.

@Bartender fancy making some rocks, reeds, and weeds for the river banks?

Quote from: Necora on April 16, 2017, 04:54:26 AM
true to what question?

         bool _addOnCreate = true;

Reeds are already in development, and I've been thinking about some nice submerged rocks to make the waters more interesting indeed. I'll see what I can come up with ;)!

@Bartender great!

@RedKetchup how do you make something 'free' to build (i.e. not have a build stage)?

Necora, kid1293 explained me, how to do that, you can look in the source of my water lilies mod:  http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=174

Quote from: Necora on April 16, 2017, 12:07:56 PM
@Bartender great!

@RedKetchup how do you make something 'free' to build (i.e. not have a build stage)?

here an example from my torch you can put on the grond that is ghosted.

// layout of the entity
ComponentDescription resource
{
// how often to update
UpdatePriority _updatePriority = Fourth;

// declare types that will be used
Description _descriptions
[
"ui",

"map",
"zone",
"toolbar",
"createplaced",
"decal",
"model",
"particle",
"picking",
"highlight",
"interact",
"storage",
"work",
"radius",
"statusicon",
"tracker",

"statemachine",
"cleararea",
"build",
"workplace",
"destroy",
]
}

// layout of the entity
ComponentDescription destroyed
{
// how often to update
UpdatePriority _updatePriority = None;

// declare types that will be used
Description _descriptions
[
"map",
"zone",
"decal",
"modeldestroyed",
"radius",
]
}

RadiusDescription radius
{
int _radius = 20;
// MaterialInstance _decalMaterial = "Terrain/TiledDecals/SelectAreaMaterial.rsc";
}


TrackerDescription tracker
{
}

ClearAreaDescription cleararea
{
bool _flattenGround = true;
}

StateMachineDescription statemachine
{
}

ZoneDescription zone
{
}

DestroyDescription destroy
{
int _damagedSkin = 1;
int _damagedDecal = 1;
}

StatusIconDescription statusicon
{
SpriteSheet _spriteSheet = "StatusIcons\BuildingIconSpriteSheet.rsc";
bool _fixedSize = true;
float _size = 0.04;
float _zoffset = 1.33;
}

ToolbarDescription toolbar
{
SpriteSheet _spriteSheet = "UI/iSeeFireSpriteSheet.rsc";
String _spriteName = "RealTorch";

StringTable _stringTable = "UI/iSeeFireStringTable.rsc";
String _stringName = "RealTorch";
String _stringNameLwr = "RealTorchLwr";
String _toolTip = "RealTorchTip";

String _statusStrings
[
"CreateOk",
"CreateBlocked",
]

int _group = 1;
}

CreatePlacedDescription createplaced
{
PathBits _placeBits = Normal | Obstacle;

int _width = 0;
int _height = 0;
int _footprintRotation = 0;

PathBits _placeBitArray
[
Normal | Obstacle,
]
String _placeBitmap =
"";

bool _addOnCreate = false;
bool _neverAdd = true;
bool _addToOverhead = false;
bool _ignoreZones = true;

ComponentDescription _allowAndRemove = "Template/Clear.rsc";
}

MapDescription map
{
PathType _pathType = Normal;
Color _mapColor = 0xFF545454;
bool _addOnCreate = false;
bool _neverAdd = true;
bool _addToOverhead = false;
bool _ignoreZones = true;
}

DecalDescription decal
{
MaterialInstance _materials
[
"Models/MaterialInstance/RealTorchFootprintMaterial.rsc"
"Models/MaterialInstance/RealTorchFootprintDamageMaterial.rsc"
]
bool _tiled = false;
float _initialAlpha = 0.5;

float _mapWidth = 256.0;

DecalLocation _decalLocations
[
{
float _x0 = 0.0;
float _y0 = 0.0;
float _x1 = 256.0;
float _y1 = 256.0;
}
]
}

PickingDescription picking
{
MaterialInstance _selectMaterial = "Material/SelectionMask/SelectionMask.rsc";
PickingGroup _meshes
[
{
PickingMesh _mesh
[
"Models\RealTorchPicking.rsc"
]
}
]
}


ModelDescription model
{
MeshGroup _meshes
[
{
GraphicsMesh _mesh
[
"Models\RealTorchMesh.rsc"
]
}
]
int _displayIndex = 0;
int _subIndex = 0;
bool _randomIndex = false;
}

HighlightDescription highlight
{
EdgeGroup _meshes
[
{
EdgeMesh _mesh
[
"Models\RealTorchMesh.rsc:edge"
]
}
]

// materials for drawing selection with no mesh
MaterialInstance _maskMaterial = "Material/SelectionMask/SelectionMask.rsc";
MaterialInstance _edgeMaterial = "Material/SelectionEdge/SelectionEdge.rsc";
}

InteractDescription interact
{
PointList _pointList = "Models\RealTorchPoints.rsc";
}

StorageDescription storage
{
}

WorkDescription work
{
int _defaultWorkers = 1;
}

WorkPlaceDescription workplace
{
// no actual work done here once the building is built
//Profession _profession = null;
//Profession _pickupProfession = null;
}

ParticleDescription particle
{
PointList _pointList = "Models\RealTorchPoints.rsc";
ParticleAttachment _systems
[
{
bool _addOnCreate = true;
Particle _particle = "ParticleSystems\Fire\TorchFire.rsc";
String _attachNode = "smoke";
}
]
}

BuildDescription build
{
int _workRequired = 0;
}

UIDescription ui
{
Dialog _dialog = "Dialog/StandardDialog.rsc:entity";
ElementController _controllers
[
{
ElementDescription _element = "content";
String _insertAt = "userButton1";
}
{
ObjectType _type = WorkPlaceUI;
ElementDescription _element = "Dialog/Work.rsc:workPlace";
String _insertAt = "userTitle1";
}
{
ObjectType _type = UpgradeUI;
ElementDescription _element = "Dialog/iSeeFireUpgrade.rsc:upgradeButton";
String _insertAt = "userButton0";
DialogControllerConfig _config = "upgradeConfig";
}
{
ObjectType _type = StatusIconUI;
ElementDescription _element = "Dialog/Building.rsc:icons";
String _insertAt = "userTitle2";
}
{
ObjectType _type = BuildUI;
ElementDescription _element = "Dialog/Build.rsc:build";
String _insertAt = "pageBuild";
}
{
ObjectType _type = DestroyUI;
ElementDescription _element = "Dialog/Destroy.rsc:destroy";
String _insertAt = "pageDestroy";
}
]
}

GroupDescription content
{
ElementDescription _elements
[
"iSeeFireContainer"
]
}

ContainerDescription iSeeFireContainer
{
Alignment _alignment = MidRight;
int _topPad = 8;
int _leftPad = 16;
int _width = 220;

ElementDescription _content = "TextiSeeFire";
}

TextDescription TextiSeeFire
{
Alignment _alignment = MidRight;
Font _font = "Font\FontSmall.rsc";
bool _wordWrap = true;
int _wordWrapSize = 250;
StringTable _stringTable = "UI/iSeeFireStringTable.rsc";
String _text = "CitationiSeeFireTip";
}

UpgradeUIConfig upgradeConfig
{
ComponentDescription _upgradeTo = "Template/TorchTrash.rsc";
}


Thanks @tanypredator and @RedKetchup !

Ok, here are three simple riffle decorations. 1st is steam - the same as the water wheel I used in the Sherbrooke pictures earlier, 2nd is foam - a foam texture that radiates from the center in a rhythmic fashion, and the 3rd is turbulence - a turbulence texture that is not a particle, but has the foliage material assigned to it so that it pronounces the movement under water.

Pictures are attached, using @Discrepancy 's bridge and boat as a beautiful scene setter with some CC reeds.

A few notes before you download it... it is a WIP! These are just a few things I thought of, now it is up to you guys (especially @Paeng ) to let me know how it works, and what types of stream deco you would want... more steam? A line of steam? Different types of turbulence textures? More radiating foam particles?

On the technical side - I cannot control the direction of the movement of particles (that I have found yet). Well, I can, but it is global on the map not for individual objects and it doesn't matter what rotation you place them at. For example, I can change the direction of smoke from a chimney, but it will happen to all buildings the same way regardless of what rotation you place the house. That means that for this mod, all particles radiate out from the center of the point in all directions. I would love to make them move in a direction relative to the building not the map, but I've yet to figure out how (if it is at all possible). This is why I made the turbulence texture, because that I can direct to. There are 3 F-variants of this turbulence, each at a different Z angle to cover corners etc.

Also, these look best at 1x speed. It gets pretty hectic as you speed up.

And finally, be careful when placing! They are -1m (ish) to make them under/on the water. This means if you accidentally place them on land you cannot click on them to remove them. I might give them an extended vertical invisible cube to avoid this in the future.

Let me know what you think.

Looks wonderful, downloading to have a play around :D

Again, a new approach. Even if I'm more the "bean counter" kind of player, I like all these visual experiments as well! Looks very nice! :)

Hey, back from a quick easter holiday...  :)

Quote from: Necora on April 16, 2017, 01:00:20 PMnow it is up to you guys

Cool, the little rapids look great... downloading now  ;)

Quote from: kid1293 on April 15, 2017, 06:08:20 AMI have a nagging feeling that it is a blessing you are not modding Banished

Tehehe... yeah, at this point in time I'd rather pester the "next gen"...  :D


EDIT

Starting to "paint" with Banished (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=652.msg31382#msg31382)...

QuoteAny suggestions on other pieces that would be useful?

Okay... the turbulence is cool, thanks to the F-variants it can be turned and twisted fine... most probably not possible to tone down the shadows a bit? Anyway, no big deal...  :)

Then there are the two foam (?) - the one on the middle icon (which spreads like a little star) is a bit strong on the star shape - but I want to test that on other uses, like a watermill or such, that will probably give better results...

The "fog" is nice, doesn't spread too much... it will improve when we have more and better shore rocks, vegetation and such...<cross_eyeing Bartender>   ;)

As you mentioned, it would be great if you can somehow add a little placement helper... if it's not too much of an act, else don't bother  :)


Definitely a cool new piece for our tool box  :D

Thanks @Paeng . Shadows have been taken away thanks to @Bartender magic. The one with the star was experimenting with using the same texture as the turbulence piece but as a particle. I found it came out well if you managed to place it on a pole of a bridge or something. I have messed around a bit with how it acts since, and changed the texture to something hopefully more rounded to give more of a ripple effect. The steam I have to play around with a bit, some times it comes out nice other times it seems to only half come out and the other half is shaded. I also applied a water material to it which keeps it from rising up too much, and makes it spread out at water level more. As for the placement, I have no idea. I don't think build stages show up, and I don't know if there is a way to make something disappear once built. I could put in an F-variant of a large arrow or something to show where you are, then you hit 'f' before placing. I don't know if this is more cumbersome though but it is all I can think of.

In the mean time, I also made some water to plop on ground level so you can make a pond or lake or stream. It has a few pieces, an edge, corner, and center. They all have some movement to them too using the foliage material, so there is a nice gentle undulation in the water surface.

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden01.jpg.f62ca5407ea185173cd1a4012c0cd79c.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden02.jpg.4030d4d74f2067e9035642ee17cc4887.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden03.jpg.6dde3e38c4100cbcc64f31f56e131f39.jpg)

I'll work on more tonight while listening to the hockey and share them tomorrow.

WOW. i wanta see how they look without hiding behind the trees,please, do i dare ask if this can be used to make bass  lakes and catfish ponds?

@brads3

Quote from: brads3 on April 18, 2017, 07:14:43 PM
i wanta see how they look without hiding behind the trees,please,

I've attached a pic of individual pieces and a simple pond made of them to this post. You can see the edges are rather harsh, hence the trees ;)

Quote from: brads3 on April 18, 2017, 07:14:43 PM
do i dare ask if this can be used to make bass  lakes and catfish ponds?

For some reason, I knew once I made this that you would ask that ;) and yes it can, if you want. I guess the best thing to do would be to build a small fishing dock for them that catches catfish and bass. As these are all modular 1 tile pieces, you can make it as big or small as you want.

Righty-O. Hockey finished, Habs lost :( , but I did get some more pieces made for the second version of this WIP which is attached to the end of this post.

By the way, in case anyone was wondering, riffle is a term for fast moving stretch of river, also rapids if you like. I chose riffle though because it sounds funnier.

In this next version, you'll find...

• 1x ghost water steam particle.
• 1x ghost water foam particle.
• 4x ghost turbulence textures, all below water level, each with three different angles. These textures have the foliage material so they have a pronounced movement when placed.
• 4x digging tools = 0m, -0.25m, -0.50m, and -0.75m.
• 3x ground level (0m) water squares = a corner, an edge, and a center piece. These all have a foliage material on the center of them, to give some nice ripple like movement.
• 3x lower level water squares = -0.25m, -0.50m, and -0.75m.
• 3x sloping water squares = from 0m to -0.25m, from -0.25m to -0.50m, and from -0.50m to -0.75m. These have a turbulence texture overlaid on top that has the foliage material and gives them some movement.
• All pieces are ghosted and free to build, apart from the digging tools which are free but not ghosted... they need to be deleted to work.

Known bugs - for some reason, the foam particle 'breaks' at some point. It does nothing bad to the game, it just freezes (the particle, not the game. The game runs fine) and becomes a star in the water. I have no idea why this happens, so need to dig into the particle system a bit more. No ghosted items here change terrain height, so you need to use the digging tools to make a sloping river.

These (in combination with CC and other maritimes mods in these screen shots) should allow you to make something along the lines of this...

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden04.jpg.90362b0773ab902f2d0ab566c00a619c.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden05.jpg.183f29c20271e2c542f15799029c9421.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden06.jpg.c8c1eaec5b2d79f94cfdbd79a75638d5.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden07.jpg.c115f6b9193539571c557ffa9abb809b.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden08.jpg.5bee2371ca4ebcba2add2c1c780b0775.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_04/SecretGarden10.jpg.70cc93c0b4e5779231d9578990d131e5.jpg)

when you said riffle, i thought you ment rifle and was goina shoot us all.lol. here we say ripples.we ain't too far from canada. the water looks awesome. if it can have curves and make for some nice lakes,looks super.the map always gives lakes that are huge.
i would hate to label all those different icons. are they clickable and then have a delete button??? this game looks totally different than the vanilla by now.

@brads3 I was reading how to fish trout in a fast moving river because the one at the end of the garden is flowing pretty hard and I have no idea what to do in a river like that, and the internet kept calling it a riffle. It gave me a chuckle so I used the name.

I also hate icons. So annoying and time consuming, but good icons do make a big difference to the overall presentation of the mod. I'm learning things about modding/gaming that I never thought were important, like icons and UI layouts etc. In Banished also, good icons and effort in building the meshes for consistent raw materials within sets, they just make the whole thing look smarter and whole.

All ghosted pieces are clickable and have a delete icon in the UI. The particles, if you click where they are originating from you'll find an invisible square.

Quote from: Necora on April 18, 2017, 07:47:59 PM
@brads3 I was reading how to fish trout in a fast moving river because the one at the end of the garden is flowing pretty hard and I have no idea what to do in a river like that, and the internet kept calling it a riffle. It gave me a chuckle so I used the name.

----

You know, you now have to make a little fishing spot ;)  We have the little trout spot & Discrepancy has a little fishing spot, but, a @Necora one has to now be done :D  Lounge chair, fish bucket, basket/hamper :)  Small, 1 x X land/water placeable to can be 'used' properly at a stream, or placed as decorative at the new pond area.  :D :D :D 

I wish there was a terrain tool that could push down the terrain that automatically fills up with real water so that we could make our own little fishing ponds and park areas.

Too bad Luke never came up with something like that... just imagine the fun we could have playing around with terrains.


By the way Necora, I love all the plants, trees, and bushes you have around your pond.  Is that a seperate stand alone ghosted plant decor mod ?  If so, where can I find it ?  I'd love to have all the different ghosted plant varieties that you've got showing in your pics, they look gorgeous !

@ancientmuse let's see, the plants are a mash up of some maritimes stuff and mostly stuff from CC Journey (http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/files/file/158-journey-for-banished-107/).

The trees are maritimes, and the low red and blue bushes are maritimes also, blueberry and cranberry. I do have them as ghost decorations, but for some reason have yet to share them. I'll go over the mod tomorrow and make sure everything is in order then release it. The fences can be found in the Crystal Cliffs set, although I might move them to the general maritimes decorations pack instead so that all decorations are under one roof.

The others, the rocks, reeds, green bushes, and ground coverings are all from the latest CC Journey. The new flora they added there are just stunning. I believe all of the CC ghost decorations are also in the Mega Mod Decoration Pack (http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/files/file/160-megamod-deco-pack/) as well, along with things from most people here, if you are looking for decorations and not the full mega mod experience.

Geez...

I never even thought of adding CC's Mega Mod Decor pack as a seperate mod to my regular 1.0.7 game, because I do love all the ghosted plants and stuff from it but don't play CC very much since I just prefer the regular game with all my favourite stand alone mods instead. 

Why the heck didn't I think of that before ??

Duh !



Oh, and your Crystal Cliffs fences I use all over the bloody place all the time.... love those !

;D

Well, so much for that idea.

The CC Mega Deco pack doesn't work as a stand alone for 1.0.6 or 1.0.7.... it just crashes the game as soon as you try to click on the "decor" menu button.

I tried both game versions with other mods as well as all by itself with no other mods (totally vanilla) and it just won't work.

I guess it's somehow coded with CC Journey.  Too bad, I'd love to have some of that stuff for regular Banished, especially all the different ghosted trees and plants.

*sigh*

:(

these pieces can be tough fun to move around and takes some getting use to.i notice some don't seem to go right where the pointer shows too. i tried making some waterfalls with those slopes and it never looked right.  the center pieces at various  ground levels combined with the shovels to remove and slope the land is super. those alone would have been a big improvement to the game without you having to make it harder on yourself.
we would have been happy with simple mods. this is lots better than the ponds with rocks all around them.they are more decorative for city parks.
can the center pieces be made to stretch like we make roads??
  QUERY, we need to see if TOMSAWYER can remake his trout fisherman into a bass fisherman that isn't tied to the streams.then we can place him with these ponds and lakes.
ANCIENTMUSE, did you try RED's decoration pack?? there is a lot in it that might be what you are looking for.

Quote from: brads3 on April 18, 2017, 10:18:18 PM
ANCIENTMUSE, did you try RED's decoration pack?? there is a lot in it that might be what you are looking for.

Oh yes, I have Red's and Kid's deco stuff... I've been using them both for ages.

Unfortunately for Red's deco pack nothing is ghosted so you're limited to where you can put things... my favourite is the scarecrow, but you can't plunk it down in the middle of a field where scarecrows usually go.  That's why I was hoping that the CC mega mod would work in the regular game so I could take advantage of all the deco items that have been ghosted in that pack.

Oh well, I'm still happy with all the great decor items we do have for regular Banished, so no big deal !

;D

Quote from: ancientmuse on April 18, 2017, 09:46:16 PM
Well, so much for that idea.

The CC Mega Deco pack doesn't work as a stand alone for 1.0.6 or 1.0.7.... it just crashes the game as soon as you try to click on the "decor" menu button.

I tried both game versions with other mods as well as all by itself with no other mods (totally vanilla) and it just won't work.

I guess it's somehow coded with CC Journey.  Too bad, I'd love to have some of that stuff for regular Banished, especially all the different ghosted trees and plants.

*sigh*

:(

You know I was getting that problem as well but I figured I had messed something up in my coding. I didn't try it vanilla on its own though. I am surprised it has not been mentioned on the BL site yet, perhaps not many people have tried it stand alone.

There is a very pretty fishing pond in @RedKetchup Medieval Town.  I asked nicely if he could separate it from the mod for me. Still waiting.  I don't know how it was made for the fishing but maybe that would be of some help here.

Quote from: Abandoned on April 19, 2017, 07:16:01 AM
There is a very pretty fishing pond in @RedKetchup Medieval Town.  I asked nicely if he could separate it from the mod for me. Still waiting.  I don't know how it was made for the fishing but maybe that would be of some help here.

sorry i did nothing yet about NMT and NMT 3.0 for 1.0.7

@RedKetchup oh, no problem, Medieval Town will be a big project for you to update.  Is the fisherman added to the pond like a fishing pier or is it made different?

Quote from: Bartender on April 16, 2017, 11:18:49 AM
Reeds are already in development, and I've been thinking about some nice submerged rocks to make the waters more interesting indeed. I'll see what I can come up with ;)!

@Bartender would love to see!  If you could use the BL reed resource as a base, even better that way they will both be used together in further resource manufacturing, CC introduced the Survival Coat (feathers & reeds) & Firebundles with reeds.
I have no issues with introing new content, but if there is one in game, if possible, at least make the resource work the same.  (IMHO)

Quote from: brads3 on April 18, 2017, 10:18:18 PM
....
  QUERY, we need to see if TOMSAWYER can remake his trout fisherman into a bass fisherman that isn't tied to the streams.then we can place him with these ponds and lakes.

Ahaha, you could @brads3 but they aren't my type of fish :)  Where I live, the river where I get the most beautiful fish is the Murray, fish include:  Cod, Callop, Catfish etc  (http://www.murrayriver.com.au/fishing/)  I've not been a huge bass fan.  Although the wall mounted singing bass, that was a hoot!! :D

oh, @brads3 , bass fishing  :)  Need a couple of deco dead tree branches hanging out over the water, that's were they like to hide in the shadows.

@Necora - the new WiP of the rapids is cool... the slope pieces are quite challenging to work with   :o  :D

I tried to make a transition from high ground down into a small river here (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=652.msg31495#msg31495) - came out rather credible I think...  :)

Would it be possible to make the -.75 (the lowest one that transitions into the game water) a bit more irregular (like the "edges" for high ground)? When the sides are all square it's hard to transition...

* It may be worth a try to make the models slightly oversized (but maintaining the basic 1x1 square), so it overhangs a bit on all 4 sides...


Once we have more different shore rocks and flora (stuff that does not just hang in the air), this set should make fantastic scenes!  :)


EDIT

Oh, and I tried to coax the DS Fishing spot (from the bridges) to start fishing from the surface water... but no love  :(

@Paeng I can make a full set of corner pieces and edge pieces for all heights, then it is totally flexible. I also want to make those irregular edges more apparent and also add a diagonal piece.

Originally, I made just 1 texture that was a splat (for lack of a better word) of water which was slightly larger than a game tile and had irregular edges. The problem with this, and I don't know if it is a Banished thing or a general game thing, is that when you place two meshes with overlapping edges next to each other and the edges are at the same height, the textures 'fight' each other and flicker through one another (plus you get those nasty diagonal shadows). Add some water movement to that, and you have some rather extreme flickering between textures, like the whole thing is vibrating. So that is why I went with the central piece and some edges and corners, so that they sit next to each other more comfortably.

@brads3 and @Abandoned and anyone else who is into a spot of fishing... decisions! So, the traditional game fishing method will not work here, because there is technically no water in the radius. So that means we need to make it like the apiary example, which means we have some decisions to make...

Firstly, functional or decorative?

If functional, should it produce fish out of nothing (like the apiary) or having a consume/produce component?

Do we produce 'fish' like original game or do we add 'bass' and 'perch' and 'trout' and 'whatever else' as new raw materials?

What sort of numbers balancing wise do we go for, some thing with mostly visual fun that produces a little bit of recreational fish every now and then, or something that produces like a full production building, something like 400-500 units of fish a year?

I figure the building itself will be something small, and probably ghosted. How about a version that is a little boat and a version that is land/dock based? What sort of build costs? Remember I have already introduced small boats and am adding fishing gear in various forms as materials for another set so they can be used here.

So much to decide!

I think, I am going to make one more update to this set. I will add a fishing option, and a few more water pieces as mentioned above, perhaps some water falls to step down too. I'll try and make some more decorations such as logs and things (although I'm not great at that) and will re-organise the toolbar some how. Then, I think that will be it.

@Necora , so many decisions.  Well, it is certainly decorative, very nice.  It is hard so say about the fishing since the size of the pond is up to the player constructing it.  If it is made large like a small lake, a boat would make sense but for a small pond a shore dock or fishing shack.  Either one I think for only 1 or 2 fishermen at most.  Original fish is good so as not to add more new raw materials but bass or lake perch could be caught from either boat or shore.  Either way amount of fish produced would have to justify using a worker, at least for my way of playing.  So not much help with decision making here  :)  I am sure whatever you decide will turn out well.

Quote from: Necora on April 20, 2017, 10:01:27 AMthe textures 'fight' each other and flicker through one another

Oh yeah, I know that "effect"... well, one down   ;)

* seems to be a Banished thing though...

QuoteI'll try and make some more decorations such as logs and things

Yeah, random logs that are not in a stockpile are high on my list ever since... for the shores maybe also some driftwood  :)


Whatever you come up with, this is a really rich set with plenty new opportunities to create wild nature settings...  ;D

A big log by the roadside that you can just sit on. Perhaps cut in half, or perhaps just round. And a fallen log bridge, maybe?

Quote from: elemental on April 20, 2017, 03:23:30 PM
A big log by the roadside that you can just sit on. Perhaps cut in half, or perhaps just round. And a fallen log bridge, maybe?

so much things people can do in this game ^^

with the modular idea,we can always decorate the shore as we want. we have several small houses that can be used also. a simple tiny dock fisherman that produces fish would look fine.or  just a guy fishing on the shore,like TOM's trout fisherman. it might be nice to add a rowboat as a decoration,since not everyone uses CC.i would keep the numbers similar to the other fishing spots to make it worthwhile,400-500.if someone makes a pond too small then they can assume the guy went to other ponds or lakes to fish from time to time.and yes i agree keeping to fish is better for the game and menu than too many types. i like ELEMENTAL's ideas of various  rustic styled decor.

Quote from: RedKetchup on April 20, 2017, 04:24:25 PM

Quote from: elemental on April 20, 2017, 03:23:30 PM
A big log by the roadside that you can just sit on. Perhaps cut in half, or perhaps just round. And a fallen log bridge, maybe?

so much things people can do in this game ^^

Actually @RedKetchup  you have already made the nicest logs in the game. (no offence to any other modders who have made logs intended.) Those logs you put next to your medieval kiln look great. Would love to see them or maybe something a bit bigger as a roadside decoration, as I said before, just somewhere people can sit. I know bannies don't sit even when idling. Purely for decoration.

Quote from: elemental on April 20, 2017, 04:58:32 PM
Actually @RedKetchup  you have already made the nicest logs in the game. (no offence to any other modders who have made logs intended.) Those logs you put next to your medieval kiln look great. Would love to see them or maybe something a bit bigger as a roadside decoration, as I said before, just somewhere people can sit. I know bannies don't sit even when idling. Purely for decoration.

i can maybe add those to Traning Camp: Deco :)
i will have to make an update someday anyways for offering those horses without saddles :)

Sounds like a very good idea.  ;)

Quote from: Necora on April 20, 2017, 10:01:27 AM
----
Firstly, functional or decorative?

If functional, should it produce fish out of nothing (like the apiary) or having a consume/produce component?

Do we produce 'fish' like original game or do we add 'bass' and 'perch' and 'trout' and 'whatever else' as new raw materials?

What sort of numbers balancing wise do we go for, some thing with mostly visual fun that produces a little bit of recreational fish every now and then, or something that produces like a full production building, something like 400-500 units of fish a year?

I figure the building itself will be something small, and probably ghosted. How about a version that is a little boat and a version that is land/dock based? What sort of build costs? Remember I have already introduced small boats and am adding fishing gear in various forms as materials for another set so they can be used here.

So much to decide!

I think, I am going to make one more update to this set. I will add a fishing option, and a few more water pieces as mentioned above, perhaps some water falls to step down too. I'll try and make some more decorations such as logs and things (although I'm not great at that) and will re-organise the toolbar some how. Then, I think that will be it.

@Necora this is how I see my fishing spot (others may agree or disagree :D )

-- A pond scenario would have a small standing area (with deck chairs & lobster pots ghosted decos), room enough for 2-3 people, fishing whilst beautiful alone, is often done in small groups of 2 or 3 in my local area, families, most times with friends.

-- A fisherperson would catch no less than 125 (150-200+ ~), enough to feed themselves, and a little for their table, or the community food basket

-- Also, perhaps introduce Yabbying :) ;) 

-- A little lake, or rivers edge scenario would have a dock and boat, just a small one, enough for a couple of river dinghy style boats to be moored to it.  In which case, using your little boats from the shore fishing, (although, will that make this mod dependant on the other mod???) to fish, these would catch more than the handline fishing above (400-500+).  You would certainly catch larger fish, and given the game doesn't do that, the value of the fish then should be increased.
These could be used in the same way as you have them now, dependant on other consumables, or, have a 'slower' rate of fishing. 

-- Fish species - a couple ways of doing it.  For those that want diversity, have a few different 'common' types of fish, that gets handled as individual fish, and each fish has a different trade value (the large fish would have more trade than the smaller ones).   OR   Introduce a next step (like @Discrepancy fishmonger) it takes 'fish' and changes it to A B C.
- OR Have the diverse fish, but use a 'cleaning bench', that cleans & fillets the species to "Fish", which can then be used in other mods, recipes, and drying racks etc.

--  I like the idea of a drying shed, a small river side one, that takes a large amount of fish, but on a small footprint (tall though, to hang the fish).  That can then produce the fish further, and increase the value.  I have a pinterest board (https://au.pinterest.com/mrsklb09/media-game-banished-mod-ideas-for-dev/) with some ideas I've found in the last few weeks.

-- These are just a couple of ideas I've had, but I'm certainly open to a couple of different ways of fishing, I would (at a minimum) allow a number of people to fish in each spot, as I find fishing a lovely bonding experience.  :)

Phew, what an interesting couple of hours, I've had a chance to play around with a few settings, some ideas were a hit, others ...  well ... thank goodness for saves!!  ;)

@Necora I really do enjoy the new Riffle mod, it's quite nice and adds a new design element.  I've had some time with it, and this is what I've come up with.
Please excuse the bad layout, it's not decorative I was going for possibilities, not 'pretty'.  In saying that though, I couldn't find half the decorations that you & @Paeng have used in your screenshots, so I probably just haven't seen where the decos are, or ....  anyway ...  Function over Form at this point, lol.

1)  May we please have a -1.0 level as well.  I like the -.75 but when working around other mods that have been lowered, as you can see, they are lower still, and the water hasn't 'gelled' with it as much as I would like.
2)  Lower pieces, may we please have some lovely corners?
3)  May we please have some higher level riffles?  (I know that it's a possibility that the way I've terraformed, and the HUGE landmass I've used may have distorted the tiles etc, and may be why I'm not getting any pretty effect.
4)  May we please have some more decorations (over time, that's ok)
5)  May we please have some land tiles, that conform with the tile?  Or, a 'road' that suits the design. 
5.a)  Or, if introducing a fishing site of some form, ghosted please to place on any surface. :)  (You can see why below).

Now ...  I've manage to fish!!  And as you can see, also use other dock pieces from other mods :)  There's a trick to it.

1)  Use the Terraform tool (http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/files/file/32-terraform/) produced by @kralyerg which is either in Mega Mod (if you use it) OR stand alone from the BL forums.  (Linked here (http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/files/file/32-terraform/))
2)  Add in all the objects you want, dock pieces etc
3)  Add in a small fishing spot - I use a couple, including @Tom Sawyer fishing mod (yellow) (Fly Fishing (http://www.banishedventures.com/flyfishing/))
4)  Fill in with the water texture tiles.


A couple of things to note:
-- The terraform tool will work anywhere on the map, allowing you to 'fish' anywhere. 
-- You will need to fiddle with the settings a bit to get the Fly Fishing spot just right, because it isn't 'ghosted' you can't put it on a path, or on the dock, but, it gives you a starting place
-- I used a combination of all terraform heights and those in Necora's mod to get things as close as I could to being functional and pretty.
-- I used a 20x20 square, no doubt it would look nicer, and easier to decorate in a small spot. 


Oh, lastly, it looks lovely in Winter, like a beautiful ice skating rink. :) :)

Over all, I love the mod, it really adds a new dimension.  Thank you @Necora for the effort you put in to this.


So, here are the screenshots, pretty crappy, sorry folks. 
(See @Nilla my square world :D ;)  hahaha)



{update}  I can confirm that "Tiny Fisherman" (green) by @kid1293 does work; "Arch Bridge Fishing Spot" (purple) by @Discrepancy also does work. 

QUERY nice test. i wondered about the terraform idea when i 1st loaded this set but it was late so i didnt try it. in your 2nd pic down on the left side of the lake ,i take it that is terraformed and not sloped via NECORA's mod?hence the sharp banks. as for corners and more heights,be careful what you wish for. there is so many icons that look the same it is hard now to figure out. i think the dig outs work well and slope the land more so than the old way. that alone can give us edges and corners.to me the flats at different depths and the sloped water with the dig outs would be enough icons and give us several options. along with the riffles/rapids we could desing our own lakes or streams.i did get some ideas from PAENG on how to set it up. i figure simple is easier for the modder to code and build and doesn't crowd the toolbar either. now that we have this and as others get to test it, other modders could add to it or use it to make other mods. NECORA already hinted at a waterfall. a smaller easier mod would be better to add to other mods as well-less coding.
      we have 3 modders now changing the texture and game play dramatically. i am sure in time this ideas will be expanded on by other modders. the fodder set by RED can be used to feed livestock to produce milk,etc. the meadows from BARTENDER have opened up the maps. i'm sure some will want more houses to use the thatch. hopefully more uses of it as well.

@QueryEverything I'm surprised the fishing worked, does the vanilla building? I didn't know that lowering terrain made it act like water, as no water is there. What level did you lower it to? It might still not be the best bet for this mod though, considering you'd have to make a huuuuge pond for them to be worth while, and I think these suit more for smaller, winding/islandly ponds otherwise the texture might get quite repetitive.

So I have hit a bit of an issue and am hoping someone like @RedKetchup @kid1293 @Discrepancy @Bartender @Tom Sawyer @tanypredator might be able to help me out. These water tiles are just a 1m x 1m plane with a texture applied (so 1 face) that are about 5cm elevated, to prevent interference with the ground beneath (not sure if I need that or not though). There is then another .5m x .5m plane floating 5cm above these, which has the UV channel unwrapped to give it sway movement. Both planes have the same texture, which has been given MaritimesWaterMaterial.rsc. This is a copy of the foliage material, only it doesn't produce shadows (thanks to @Bartender ). Now, the problem I am having is that if I rotate the pieces, or spin the camera around when they are placed, they will disappear at a certain rotation. Poof, completely vanish. I have tried reverting to the foliagematerial, but it does the exact same thing.

Does anyone know why this might be happening? The strange thing is, the turbulence pieces do have the exact same material and they are fine. It is just these water tiles and I cannot figure out why.

Also someone like @Paeng or @QueryEverything can you tell me if this happens on the version you have?

EDIT - Nevermind, fixed it. It was the scale.

Quote from: Necora on April 23, 2017, 05:51:11 AM
@QueryEverything I'm surprised the fishing worked, does the vanilla building? I didn't know that lowering terrain made it act like water, as no water is there. What level did you lower it to? It might still not be the best bet for this mod though, considering you'd have to make a huuuuge pond for them to be worth while, and I think these suit more for smaller, winding/islandly ponds otherwise the texture might get quite repetitive.

So I have hit a bit of an issue and am hoping someone like @RedKetchup @kid1293 @Discrepancy @Bartender @Tom Sawyer @tanypredator might be able to help me out. These water tiles are just a 1m x 1m plane with a texture applied (so 1 face) that are about 5cm elevated, to prevent interference with the ground beneath (not sure if I need that or not though). There is then another .5m x .5m plane floating 5cm above these, which has the UV channel unwrapped to give it sway movement. Both planes have the same texture, which has been given MaritimesWaterMaterial.rsc. This is a copy of the foliage material, only it doesn't produce shadows (thanks to @Bartender ). Now, the problem I am having is that if I rotate the pieces, or spin the camera around when they are placed, they will disappear at a certain rotation. Poof, completely vanish. I have tried reverting to the foliagematerial, but it does the exact same thing.

Does anyone know why this might be happening? The strange thing is, the turbulence pieces do have the exact same material and they are fine. It is just these water tiles and I cannot figure out why.

Also someone like @Paeng or @QueryEverything can you tell me if this happens on the version you have?

I haven't tried with the vanilla building, I can do so tomorrow.  I don't see it being a problem.  When you dig really low using @kralyerg terrain mod, it goes to dark blue, (as per screenshot) and acts like water, your PEI's were producing as much as the river placed ones were.


I noticed that if I overlaid some of the water pieces (to fill in other holes), that I got a flicker, where the 2 were trying to reflect over the other.


Ok, building a new pond, using the terraform tool.
1)  Start with Tool "terraform level 2", this has the effect of terraforming to the level of the river water.  "this is approximately the level of the rivers and lakes".
2)  Attempt to place Vanilla fishing spot, if it can't be placed, create a row (I did 3) of level 1 water, (this approx the level of the small creeks) on the inside of the 'pond', attempt to place the fishing spot.
3)  Decorate :)


Notes
I found that when I reduced the area to ~15x23 the large Vanilla one didn't produce however, the 'tiny & mini' fishing spots did produce, 51, so... more recreation only
Your fisheries however produced, completely unaffected by the smaller radius and the land mass around them.  They all performed as expected.
This would mean that you could create a small fishing spot, and with a deeper terrain tool, you can create an inland, pond fishing hole, based on your current code and mods.
:)


Excellent work @Necora now all I need to do is figure out how to use the riffles ...  lol  and how to highlight / design with the decos.  :)


Please note - again, function first - I managed to get a better slope line (you can see on the left of the Fisherman dock) using a combo of your terrain tools, it's not pretty, but this is a temp map :D

Quote from: QueryEverything on April 23, 2017, 07:14:59 AM
I haven't tried with the vanilla building, I can do so tomorrow.  I don't see it being a problem.  When you dig really low using @kralyerg terrain mod, it goes to dark blue, (as per screenshot) and acts like water, your PEI's were producing as much as the river placed ones were.

Oh I didn't know it did that. I have played with some terraforming tools, mainly the raise ones to make an earth bank with a wall on top (ghost CC wooden palisades are good for this). I only use the irrigate mod to sink the terrain though, and lower ones to style my shore lines, so didn't know there was one that makes water in land that actually acts like water.

As for the flicker, that is why there are edge, corner, and center pieces. The textures fight each other otherwise, so they have to perfectly line up and not overlap otherwise it looks pants.

And with the fishing, my fishing shacks are not dependent on water like the vanilla ones is, they produce from nothing like the apiary. This is what I was imagining for fishing on these smaller lakes/streams.

It seems then we have an excellent 'proof of concept' and that what you are hoping for, can actually work, with a little tweaking :)  Between yours & @kralyerg mods, we can definitely get an inland pond situation working :D

@Necora I've been experimenting with some water rocks, but I can't get the OpaqueInWaterMaterial.rsc to work on them for some reason. Do I need to do something special with the mesh for that?

EDIT: nevermind, I had just forgotten to add a reference to the 'snow' template :-X.. It's working now!