Arbors and water lilies
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=174 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=174)
Yes, it's very peaceful and a good addition but...the roof is leaking! :(
I guess you missed that the roof on the wood arbor needs an inside when there are no walls.
And check the table and bench legs too. The same. They are singlesided.
Quote from: kid1293 on February 01, 2017, 05:02:38 AM
Yes, it's very peaceful and a good addition but...the roof is leaking! :(
I guess you missed that the roof on the wood arbor needs an inside when there are no walls.
And check the table and bench legs too. The same. They are singlesided.
Oh! Thank you for noting that. I hadn't used this camera mod yet, so couldn't see that.
Wonderful, lovely addition to the game, only wish I had it for start of currant map. Thank you, will look forward to other decorative items.
Could not resist to make a few pictures of this new water lily. It looks incredible natural!
(http://www.banishedventures.com/images/waterlily2.jpg)
(http://www.banishedventures.com/images/waterlily.jpg)
The lilies are beautiful but I get some very dark diagonal lines on them, but only when viewing from one side. From the other side there are no lines at all. I also see these lines on some other mods, but they aren't anywhere near as dark. On some mods I don't see them at all.
Does it have something to do with shadows? Is there a way to make these lines go away?
And Tom... underwater rocks. They look great! :) I haven't seen them before. Are they part of your north mod?
The dark lines are shadow effects on flat faces with small edges around. I have this issue on my tables and benches too. It disappears when you turn off shadows or look at it from a higher position. I think it cannot be solved here.
I have one tiny suggestion for the lilies. Normally the leaves are oriented outwards, so with the notch (where the stipe is) to the centre. Then it would look perfect. And I would like to have it as natural resource grown by the game and disappearing in winter. But I guess it would be very difficult to implement.
The underwater rocks are in the Nordic mod, yes. I thought water lilies should grow there.^^
@elemental &
@Tom Sawyer ,
@RedKetchup was able to point me in the right direction regarding the lines, there is a specific term he uses.
I was able to fiddle with my shadow settings and now they are gone. I currently have my game set to:
Shadow Resolution: High
Shadow Quality: Medium
The shame of it is, I have a gaming specific system I am running on, supposed to have been the best on the market and it even has these issues when I don't have the shadow setting "exact".
Good luck :) It's annoying!!!
BTW:
@tanypredator these look lovely! If you will update the package with the minor fixes to the walls/roofs etc I will hold off on downloading, but I certainly am wanting to get my grubby mits on it :D :D
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on February 01, 2017, 04:31:58 PMI have one tiny suggestion for the lilies. Normally the leaves are oriented outwards, so with the notch (where the stipe is) to the centre. Then it would look perfect.
If you google pics of lilies there are plenty that are a random mess of leaves pointing in all directions, many of them overlapping. I like them the way they are now, but a couple more flower colours would be nice.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on February 01, 2017, 04:31:58 PM
And I would like to have it as natural resource grown by the game and disappearing in winter. But I guess it would be very difficult to implement.
I like them being purely decorative, placed exactly where I want them. I wouldn't want to see them grow and over time completely cover a lake. They do look a bit strange covered in snow. If they disappeared in winter that would be great.
Quote from: QueryEverything on February 01, 2017, 05:05:33 PM
I was able to fiddle with my shadow settings and now they are gone. I currently have my game set to:
Shadow Resolution: High
Shadow Quality: Medium
Thanks. I've tried fiddling with setting but it doesn't work for me. Looks like I'm stuck with grilled lilypad steaks.
@elemental I hope you are able to figure something out, it really becomes annoying once you realise it's "there". I had no idea, I thought it was part of my dock design until
@RedKetchup pointed it out to me. I've found that one setting works on one system, but it won't be the same on the other. I will check hubby's and see what he has his set at, see if it different, it's been a while since I've played on his unit.
Quote from: elemental on February 01, 2017, 03:35:56 PM
The lilies are beautiful but I get some very dark diagonal lines on them, but only when viewing from one side. From the other side there are no lines at all. I also see these lines on some other mods, but they aren't anywhere near as dark. On some mods I don't see them at all.
That is strange. I've had very intensive lines from any side, but solved it by a small change in a code, and hadn't seen them again. I'll try some more tests.
Quote from: QueryEverything on February 01, 2017, 05:05:33 PM
If you will update the package with the minor fixes to the walls/roofs etc I will hold off on downloading, but I certainly am wanting to get my grubby mits on it :D :D
I'm working on this problem, I hope to update the mod today or tomorrow.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on February 01, 2017, 04:31:58 PM
And I would like to have it as natural resource grown by the game and disappearing in winter.
I had never found a way to make natural resources to grow in a specific areas, but now when you said that, I was striked by one idea - they can grow everywhere, but they will be seen only on water, since they are low-leveled. It worth a try, just I havn't enough time to make everything I want :) But I'm afraid that would lead to unused tiles of forest.
Quote from: elemental on February 01, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
I like them the way they are now, but a couple more flower colours would be nice.
If they disappeared in winter that would be great.
I've planned two more colors (yellow and violet), but again, time problem.
There are two ways to make them disappear in winter: to make them with a tree leaves material and to make them natural resource (but that will work only with wildly growing ones). The first way I've tested and it looked bad.
maybe you can ask CC team, they didnt managed to make "reeds" (or another named plants) growing only following the river ? and not elsewhere ?
Quote from: RedKetchup on February 01, 2017, 10:01:27 PM
maybe you can ask CC team, they didnt managed to make "reeds" (or another named plants) growing only following the river ? and not elsewhere ?
I think it first appeared in "Beautiful world" mod, or something like that. Am I not right, that these reeds don't grow new? There are only those plants, that were in the beginning. That is why I thought, that they are actually buildings. But you are right, CC team can teach us many work-arounds.
CC has those flat squares (road texture tiles, but they aren't roads, they are just decorative squares). Those squares don't have any diagonal lines on them. Maybe there is something in the code for those flat squares that can get rid of diagonal lines on your lilies.
what you mean by diagonal lines ?? are you talking about the "moiré" the shadows does ??
Yes, the moire.
Quote from: elemental on February 01, 2017, 11:09:38 PM
Yes, the moire.
yeah the stupid moiré..... i dont have real explanation/fix yet to this real problem :'(
Quote from: RedKetchup on February 01, 2017, 11:48:08 PM
Quote from: elemental on February 01, 2017, 11:09:38 PM
Yes, the moire.
yeah the stupid moiré..... i dont have real explanation/fix yet to this real problem :'(
but there is maybe something i noticed though... since i am trying to read and find a way....
is : the moiré tend more often to appear if the 3d object is thin or thinner in the z (up-down) axis than if it would be more thicker like if the texture below(or bottom) is fighting against the top texture (and our video cards dont know anymore which pixel he should show to the screen) so increasing the thickness of the top forms help to reduce.
in the screenshot below show what i try to say .... in 1st screenshot the awning is very very thin, and you see moiré.
in the 2nd screenshot , i made the awning very very thick and you see no more moiré
Quote from: RedKetchup on February 02, 2017, 01:19:10 AM
but there is maybe something i noticed though... since i am trying to read and find a way....
is : the moiré tend more often to appear if the 3d object is thin or thinner in the z (up-down) axis than if it would be more thicker like if the texture below is fighting against the top texture (and our video cards dont know anymore which pixel he should show to the screen) so increasing the thickness of the top forms help to reduce.
in the screenshot below show what i try to say .... in 1st screenshot the awning is very very thin, and you see moiré.
in the 2nd screenshot , i made the awning very very thick and you see no more moiré
excellent find :)
that is good to know going forward.
Quote from: Discrepancy on February 02, 2017, 01:23:11 AM
excellent find :)
that is good to know going forward.
maybe sometime it can help... and probably it may not fix everything ... but this is at least a little something to keep in mind :)
RedKetchup, thank you for this information! So I should check my lily leaves' bottom plane normals and thickness of a leaf.
@elemental I agree. It should be available as decorative item in any case to create nice sceneries. The game could never do it with its limited mechanics. To give it a try as natural resource would be in addition and I would like to have it in general. Decorative plants feel to me like plastic in game and I don't really like to play with it. The water lily seems to be an exception. ;D
To find a solution for this moire problem would be great. I tried a lot too and could solve it here and there by changing shapes (yes, making it thicker) or by smoothing faces in case of the bog iron models. With the water lily I don't have a good idea how to solve it and keep their perfect looking leaves. Maybe by creating a kind of cone on the reversed side.
I did some experiments.
Pic 1 shows the moire on the lilies. Also shows those decorative road tiles from CC that I mentioned earlier. No moire on those tiles.
Pic 2 shows the lilies from the other direction. No moire.
Pic 3 shows lilies on a spot where I lowered the land with terraform mod. No water underneath them, but they still have moire. So moire probably isn't caused by a texture underneath the lilies.
Pic 4 I zoomed in with zoomhack. The lily pads aren't totally flat, it looks like they have a very thin edge around them. Maybe this is causing a shadow on the flat lily pad surface? I'm just guessing. I don't know if this is the reason for the moire.
But if they were flat, would they still have moire? Those CC road tiles are flat they have no thickness - just a flat plane. They don't have any texture on their underside, either. I looked with zoomhack and from underneath they are invisible. Those decorative CC road tiles also don't cast any shadows at all, so maybe that is why they don't have moire.
I hope this is helpful in some way for tany and anyone else who is trying to figure out the moire problem. :)
Quote from: elemental on February 02, 2017, 03:17:55 AM
I did some experiments.
Thank you very much for this testing, elemental! I'll try to solve this problem, just I cannot promise, that I'll do it today, more likely tomorrow evening or on weekend.
So, I updated the mod with corrected normals for roofs and tables, but couldn't solve the lines-problem. I studied my leaves model and found out that there are some strange doubles and incorrect normals. But neither correcting that, nor increasing the thickness hadn't eliminated lines. You can see the 1-tile simple leaves in a new download, with which I experimented - it still has lines.
PS. I hadn't tested making them a simple plane, but I'm afraid that this will remove shadow from beneath and maybe also bring some problems with snow.
The only thing I can think is going on is the water.
I you look at the edge of a bridge there are some strange things from the water.
If you place an alpha channeled texture over water maybe thats the problem.
Make an easy test. Remove Foliage material and test with OpaqueSnow.
That way you will know if it is the alpha texture and water.
You maybe have to make a quick leaf model to test with, without alpha, but
it could be worth it in the long run.
You can certainly try what Kid suggested but as I show in pic 3, there are still lines even if you place the lilies on a square with no water. I flattened some land tiles with terraform mod in pic 3. You can see where the water tiles end in that screenshot.
A version with just a flat plane for lily pads would be an interesting test. Maybe no shadow is better than lines? From above the water looks fairly murky (except in very shallow streams where it looks very clear) so how much shadow and detail would you expect to see on the bottom of the lake? We really shouldn't be able to see much at all underneath the water, and yet we can see the bases of buildings and everything else, as if the water is perfectly clear.
If you can fix the problem then that would be great but even if you can't I would still use these lilies. They are too nice to leave out. :)
But finding out what is causing it would be useful for other mods too. CC guys might know. Perhaps ask them?
Yes, I think you are right
@elemental I didn't see that.
No use to test then.
edit - I made a quick test with shadows resolution / quality
With high resolution and low quality my lines disappeared.
I think we already found the cause. Like elemental said, it's a shadow effect by edges of thin models. It can be solved by removing edges including shadows or by increasing the distance to the face where the strange shadow appears (making it thicker). The shadows of the plant look very nice on the ground and create a natural effect. I would not remove them to fix the moire. I would try to make it thicker and hide it under the leaves by leading it to the centre. If this not works I can live with it. The model is great anyway.
I can give it a try in blender if you like and don't have enough time
@tanypredator.
@tanypredator just wanted to drop by & let you know that @kralyerg has talked about how they got the reeds to spawn at the water level, I've asked & he said I could share the link :)
I hope this helps, if you decide you want to have your water flora spawning natively :)
http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/topic/1005-balancing-production-of-crops-and-gatherers/&do=findComment&comment=4323
PS: Just loaded your newest version into a new map I'm using to Beta a couple of mods updated overnight, so when I get to laying out the decorations, I'll be back :D
From the CC NaturalResourceReed file:
float _minHeight = -0.5f;
float _maxHeight = -0.1f;
float _maxAngle = 0.75f;
We didn't want the reeds out in the water, so that min/max is more of a "shore" thing. I'm sure if you change the _minHeight even lower it will allow deep water growth. The Reeds in CC don't grow on their own, but that was intentional. All you need to do is turn on the autoSeed and they'll respawn themselves.
I'm not sure how to make them disappear in the winter, though. You could possibly make it a "tree" with an invisible trunk and the lily as leaves and they would disappear in the winter, but they would also change colors in the fall.
KRALYERG,so you are saying we can make things and they will self-multiply and spread all over the map??? not just limited to a gather/forest circle??
we could take some ghost animals and do that and use them for furs,just they won't walk around on their own.
@brad3 That's how trees work. That part isn't very complicated.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on February 02, 2017, 02:24:24 PM
I can give it a try in blender if you like and don't have enough time @tanypredator.
Thank you for suggesting that. I updated mod on a download page with a source, so you can take it and try to do something, if you are willing to. And, as usually, I don't mind anyone to take it and use for anything.
@QueryEverything,
@kralyerg, thank you very much for this information! A new fiel for experiments... ::)
Thank you for sharing the source
@tanypredator. I tried to solve the moire problem by this idea of thicker leaves but failed. The solution I have found was to clear up the model and break the flat area of the leaves. It reduces moire. A nice side effect are lowered vertices. So it looks In Blender and in game. The white plants on the left are changed.
That's quite an improvement. Clever thinking. :) Would you be able to share your underwater rocks with tany, so they can go in this waterlily mod? The two of them look perfect together.
I noticed some more moire last night while I was playing.
@Discrepancy has some nice walls. The tops of those walls are a flat rectangular slab. Some pieces have no moire but other pieces have moire on part of them. For example the corner wall piece has moire on one half but not the other half. It's really weird.
Also, Discrepancy's market tents have moire but if you look at the fabric coverings on the CC Central Market you see no moire. It's very strange.
Maybe it has to do with angles.
A perfectly flat area maybe produce moire effect?
Perfectly flat as in laying on the ground.
@tanypredator my pleasure, I didn't do much just link the 2 of you together :)
I'm loving the community "pull" on dev work, it's very family oriented. :D
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on February 03, 2017, 01:12:45 PM
Thank you for sharing the source @tanypredator. I tried to solve the moire problem by this idea of thicker leaves but failed. The solution I have found was to clear up the model and break the flat area of the leaves. It reduces moire. A nice side effect are lowered vertices. So it looks In Blender and in game. The white plants on the left are changed.
Great, thank you! I tried to "clear up the model" too (if you mean to delete doubles and to correct normals), but that gave no result. So what do you mean "to break the flat area"? I should do that with all models.
With clean up I mean to removed all edges of the bottom side and of course doubled vertices too. I kept only the faces on top and moved the midpoint of the leaves downwards to "break" the horizontal area. You can see in the model. I send you the fbx file and steps.
The underwater rocks are just vanillas and placed by the game
@elemental. We cannot make decorative items from it. With new models we could but only natural resources can be places on different ground levels.
@tanypredator the water lilies are absolutely fabulous. One small problem I noticed with the wood arbor on ground level, there is one inside corner that has no flooring or snow in winter, just a triangle of grass. Arbors are nice addition to the games. Thank you
Quote from: Abandoned on February 09, 2017, 06:02:42 AM
@tanypredator the water lilies are absolutely fabulous. One small problem I noticed with the wood arbor on ground level, there is one inside corner that has no flooring or snow in winter, just a triangle of grass. Arbors are nice addition to the games. Thank you
Hello! Is this problem with all wood arbors, or only with one? My point is that arbors on ground level don't flatten the ground (so you can build them over the water too), that's why it is important to choose a flat area to build them. I can make a version with flattening.
By the way, I'm working on iris flowers. I was able to make them swing like a tree, but they will not be covered with snow, since they are vertical. What do you think?
personally i would give up movement and have them covered with snow ,if that is a choice.
Quote from: brads3 on February 09, 2017, 08:02:58 AM
personally i would give up movement and have them covered with snow ,if that is a choice.
Unfortunately, no. As far as I can see, snow just don't want to cover vertical surfaces.
@tanypredator I agree with
@brads3 I would rather have the snow if they are there in winter. The look just beautiful.
I tested all the arbors. The problem seems only to be on the first wood ground one I built. I built another across the bridge, that looks okay from all angles and so do all the other ones I built both on land and water. So perhaps that first corner is on slightly raised land. I don't know if flattening is necessary.
take RED's fire mod add a verticle torch to the corner with the raised ground and then <the hard part> re click on the torch and remove it.
http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/topic/1024-texture-transparency/&do=findComment&comment=4586 TANY does that info help?
Quote from: brads3 on February 09, 2017, 11:43:49 AM
http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/topic/1024-texture-transparency/&do=findComment&comment=4586 TANY does that info help?
Thank you, brads3, I know, how to make transparent textures, but that has nothing to do with snow. Both transparent planes and solid objects can be covered with snow, but it covers horizontal surfaces, and only slightly covers vertical ones. Here is how irises look at winter. The only thing I can do, is to remove them from Decorations pack and put into New Flora pack, and to try to make them like reeds, but disappearing at winter and respawning at spring.
Please release them as part of the decorations pack. They look great with your water lilies.
I agree, they look fine, the green isn't overpowering, with warmer than air water the snow would be partially melted anyways. Since they aren't edible or harvestable like new flora I think keep with deco pack. The look great. Some cat tails would be nice too :)
Quote from: Abandoned on February 10, 2017, 04:53:41 AM
I agree, they look fine, the green isn't overpowering, with warmer than air water the snow would be partially melted anyways. Since they aren't edible or harvestable like new flora I think keep with deco pack. The look great. Some cat tails would be nice too :)
New reed is among my plans :) Since I'm not using CC or MM, and that reeds are a little too big and bright to me.
Quote from: elemental on February 09, 2017, 09:20:17 PM
Please release them as part of the decorations pack. They look great with your water lilies.
Done :)
Wonderful mod. I love the forest and flowers. I am very happy . Thank you with all my heart