I needed to get out of Nilla's thread so I don't clutter it up any more than I already have. So here's mine... again.
I had to stop this fourth game early because I got to go to work in a couple hours and I need to do some things beforehand but I managed to get Phase 1 completed in 10.5 months
(March to mid-January).
Before the start of the game I made sure there were plenty of mini-Stock Piles
(instant) located anywhere clearing would need to be done; six other strategically placed Stock Piles have 1-3 items to be cleared in each.
YEAR 1 - FIRST SIX MONTHS:
- March: Two Apple orchards got cleared first since they were the easiest to do. 1 Farmer each
- March/April: Small Iron Ore Mine, two Miners. Pumpkin field, one Farmer
- April: School, 1 Teacher - missed first kid, they aged up about 2-3 minutes after the start of the game.
- May: Pepper field, one Farmer. Vanilla Storage Barn, in time for harvest
- June: Log House has materials, waiting for 3 Builders to show up.
YEAR 1 - LAST SIX MONTHS:
- July: Log House got built. Worker's Construction Yard will get worked on next. Grindstone is queued up. Wood Chopper will get unpaused after the Worker's Construction Yard is built. 3 storage yards remain to be cleared, no rush on them. 2nd oldest kid went to school.
- August: One more Stock Pile cleared.
- September: Worker's Construction Yard completed, 1 Worker set to making one round of Iron Fittings for Grindstone. Wood Chopper completed, 1 Woodcutter
- October: Last Stock Pile cleared. Both crop fields and both orchards are still in the process of being harvested. First child born to the one and only Log House. Both Apple Orchards are harvested 342+354
- November: Before first snow, Pepper field got harvested 849; during first snow Pumpkin field got harvested 784. Grindstone is now only waiting for Timber to be made and the rest of the materials to be delivered. I forgot to turn off Iron Fittings because I was messing with the fields and orchards so I got two rounds of Iron Fittings made. Grindstone unpaused; Kid's Small Town Hall unpaused. Worker's Construction Yard (finally) set to Timber for Grindstone. 1 Laborer delivering materials to the Grindstone, one Builder doing his thing with the roads.
- December: Grindstone completed, no employee; Kid's Small Town Hall completed. Everything for "Phase One" is finished
END OF YEAR COUNTS: (10 1/2 months actually: March to mid-January)
- Homeless 16
- Laborers 1
- Builders 1
- Logs 51
- Stone 32
- Iron 13
- Firewood 198
- Ores 131
- Tools 20
- Food 1984
- Herbs 0
- Clothes 9
- Educated 91% - 1 child left behind
- Clothed 100%
- Health zero Hearts
- Happiness 3 Stars (or 2.5 I forget, 3 I think...)
No clear/gather orders were given in the first year, everything came from the initial Stock Pile and Storage Barns and the rest from clearing the land where structures were placed down.
DSIM Beta.05 games 1 & 2 were played on Industry: Ore-Smelters - (Hard) start, I failed both times due to starvation. DSIM Beta.05 games 3 & 4 used Industry: Thadd Surrel Storage - (Medium) start, I failed game 3
(starvation was happening again), this is game 4.
Images 1-3 show the pre-planning I did this time.
Image 4 shows Phase 1 completed .
EDIT: In the first 3 screenshots of the pre-planning that middle North/South road is the town divider. The roads were built around the radius circles so I would know not to build on the inside of them
(homes more specifically). The right side of the Divider Line is for resource and food production; the left side is for industry.
am i reading correctly that you have 3 builders and only 1 cabin built? would this not bring your health down farther than if you had built the houses before winter? if the objective is to slow the population growth, wouldnt a boardinghouse be better?
without construction projects stocked,builders are slow laborers. since you have had food problems,i would have planted a 2nd pepper field. even if i had to only get this years crop and then use the worker somewhere else.
The reason I had three builders just for the one Log House is not only did the Log House
allow three builders
(normally it's two Builders for homes as you know) but also because it was about mid to late June when I unpaused the Log House.
In two of the previous games before this one, one game the Builders took their sweet ass time getting it built, prior to it getting finished Banies already had the "I'm Cold" snowflake above their heads... it became a race. In the other game, they didn't get the Log House finished in time and I had some deaths. So this time, I didn't want to take any chances so I set the maximum allowed to make sure it was done on time, and it was.
As far as the Hearts go, you'll have to ask
@Nilla she pays more attention to that. After my first few games with DSIM Beta v.03 I saw how things were gonna be. I no longer give-a-hoot about Hearts and Stars
(I know I should, but I don't) because it's futile at least for me it seems to be. It seems almost near-impossible to please anyone in this dystopian environment
(lack of metal) and a prison sentence
(hard labor) with these extended build-chains. ROFL Sorry
@Discrepancy. Love ya Bro! :P But yeah, DSIM > my skills at Banished.
My Hearts and Stars for DSIM are always zero Hearts after a couple of months and it fluctuates between 2.5-3 Stars happiness and the furthest I have ever gotten in DSIM Beta v.05 was 9 years, unlike Nilla's 18 on a small mountains map no less! Again, /hat tip to her skills. I want to do better by my Banies and make them all comfy and cozy but I just don't see how that will ever happen not unless I somehow
magically improve my game over-night. :-\ :-X
i think you are right, lack of experience and playing a difficult situation mod. i would work at getting the food up and survive farther before working on production chains. have you tried with disasters off? check your food production at 6month intervals. add another farmer at the start and swap them to a hunter or gatherer later. you can increase laborer help by using the low or decreasing limits in early game thus freeing a worker to farm.
NILLA is very experienced so do not try to keep up with her. she is used to growing food in harsh north climates. she is also better at micro managing when needed.
even if trying to keep a "pure" map,i would look at adding other DS mods that coud help, especially a trading post. i would also attempt a map and delay the education. extra workers would still produce whereas students cost supplies. with a vanilla speed,they grow up fast enough to move them away from workplaces. this could free the educated adults for workplaces.
After publishing my last reply I realized I never actually answered your questions. I was about to write a follow-up comment but I am a "Who's Online <members only>" lurker and I saw you were writing another post so I waited for you to finish that to see what else you had to say.
Would my Banies Hearts have been better if they had homes before Winter? Again, ask Nilla or Discrepancy. It was my first game, on Hard with no crops and orchard seeds, that I managed to get them all a home and I think they were completed in late Autumn, possibly early Winter. Their Hearts were still low. I don't recall now but maybe even zero Hearts then as well. This game lasted to 9 years.
My second DSIM Beta v.05 game was also a Hard start but this time they only had one home each and I think two extra houses so 4-5 homes total. I still couldn't keep up with food (used exact same setup as first game) and everyone died two years earlier than the first game, at year 7.
My third DSIM Beta v.05 game was a Medium start. Before starting this game I read Discrepancy's comments about doing a slow-grow approach. I also thought I suffered enough with struggle and would go with a Medium start to get crops and orchards. I even had the forethought of knowing that since I am having food issues I will also go ahead and add some food preservation mods to help me out. So with the two new crutches to help me limp along in DSIM Beta v.05 I got a little cocky I guess and thought I would win?! Wrong again, I had four crops and 2 orchards and I still managed to get people dying due to starvation. They died at the end of year 4. How was that possible?! I felt bad and got frustrated and even for a tiny moment said F-this and considered walking away from Banished. >:( :(
But in all these games, even this fourth one - all Hearts are at zero and 2.5 to 3 Stars in happiness. Homes or not. Hell, in the last game, game 3 - I went with an even slower start and made 6 to 11 Banies wait until 4+ years before they ever got a home of their own. :P They still died off on me for having no food and I had crops and orchards in this game! WTH! I don't know...
This fourth game is starting out all good, all relaxed but that doesn't say much because I thought that way about the other games too. So who knows what's lurking ahead for me but I'm trying things a tad different this time in terms of build order and mapping things out, pre-planning a bit more than normal.
As far as your point about low Limits goes, I already do that but mostly it was with the Wood Chopper. His workplace idles on and off all the time and I am fine with that even though that means hes only a temporary Laborer. Once in a while one of my "blacksmithing" buildings will idle on and off when making tools. I hit the Logs Limit a couple of times but I thought it better to increase that Limit since I will eventually be getting the Vanilla Woodcutter up and running and hopefully in the not too far off future get that DSIM Thadd Surrel & Family Timber Mill going but that requires so many building materials to make. Anyways, I thought the best thing to do was to keep upping the Limit on Logs because at the very least I will need them for more Charcoal.
I thought about holding back on education in my third game and I actually intended to, but as soon as that game clock starting ticking my old habits got the best of me and I plopped down a School. It just rubs me the wrong way not having a School when I know how much of a difference educated vs uneducated make in this game, especially with RKEC and Discrepancy's mods and maybe Norths too? I forget. But yeah... whoopsie there. I was actually willing to let the first few kids turn punk but instinct kicked in and I made a School. :P
You made the comment about Builders being slow or bad Laborers when they have no project to work on and build. Maybe that's true I don't know, I'm sure you're right but it's such a minute thing I don't think I would be able to notice one way or the other or even know how to look and see if that was the case. That's a Nilla-thing. I just play the game, she's the Lab Tech. ;D
Oh dear, you plan a lot. My question; does it always come out the way you plan or do you change your plans along the way? And don´t get me wrong; planning is OK, I suppose it´s even good in some ways, just not my style. If I try, I change most of it, anyhow. I´m not sure, you know me; an evil old lady but my next question or assumption; you name it: Can it be that this "following your plan" is a part of your starvation problem? To me; playing Banished in these "survival modes" is to watch and react; look at basic needs; primarily food, secondary tools and firewood and leave the rest; like building fancy roads, loads of stockpiles or "development buildings until you feel safe.
To happiness and health; happiness is very complicated. I wrote a thread about my findings in the North. http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=2445.0 As far as I have seen; it´s pretty much the same here in DSIM with one important difference; people with only 3 stars doesn´t idle as much as they do in the North, so the loss in production is less. I don´t think it pays off to work with all these "happiness things". You would have to locate people outside all (or at least all except one) black circle. The loss of production when they walk between home and work is larger than the loss because of idling. My experience is that good health pays off better; fewer diseases, fewer childbirth deaths. The only way to get it is to have all food categories accessible everywhere. Not even if you manage this you will get full health, especially with a lot of traders, vendors and other "walk-around" professions. These people just grab some unhealthy fast food in a barn along the way. Herbalists may help a little but ONLY if you have all food categories, well distributed. But the loss in production when people actually go to the herbalist is large and I wouldn´t use any in an early part of the game.
Summary; don´t pay any attention to health and happiness, at least not until you have a well functioning stable economy. It´s a luxury we can´t afford to look at at the beginning.
I don´t think that builders without a project are bad labourers but builders have high priority when it comes to living close to the worksite and if you have many unemployed builders, it may mess things up and people live on odd places, far away from their workplaces.
ANYWAY: LET´S HOPE THAT MARK IS THE WINNER OF THIS ROUND AND THE MATCH AGAINST DSIM.
Quote from: brads3 on September 06, 2019, 11:12:46 PM
i think you are right, lack of experience and playing a difficult situation mod. i would work at getting the food up and survive farther before working on production chains. have you tried with disasters off?
I forgot to comment about this. I briefly considered this, but...
In real life I am one of those workers who can't stand still and just bullshit and chit chat or walk around and do nothing, I always gotta keep myself busy with something. It just seems wrong to just stand around and do nothing. And those few times where I did stand around just for a few minutes for a little chit-chat, I felt guilty about it afterwards.
So to your point about just sitting around and banking food, I kind of feels wrong to do nothing else. I mean it makes sense, it does to a point;
and even though I am not doing this...
I kind of am... I'm kind of thinking
"Nilla wouldn't do that (bank food and nothing else), Nilla would be all over the place perhaps already on her third production chain when I haven't even gotten the first one up and running completely". I don't know.
Why did you mention having disasters off? I actually haven't had any disasters in DSIM, but I have had a shit-ton of diseases and maladies! :o
(language, sorry) I've had at least 9 or 10 per game so far and one game even gave me three in a row, one month a part! They're
really an annoyance for sure, hell.. more annoying than being pestered by constant Traders arriving, and that's saying something! ROFL ;D
Quote from: Nilla on September 07, 2019, 12:44:49 AM
Oh dear, you plan a lot. My question; does it always come out the way you plan or do you change your plans along the way? And don´t get me wrong; planning is OK, I suppose it´s even good in some ways, just not my style. If I try, I change most of it, anyhow. I´m not sure, you know me; an evil old lady but my next question or assumption; you name it: Can it be that this "following your plan" is a part of your starvation problem? To me; playing Banished in these "survival modes" is to watch and react; look at basic needs; primarily food, secondary tools and firewood and leave the rest; like building fancy roads, loads of stockpiles or "development buildings until you feel safe.
Games 1-3 were as you said, played from a reactionary stance -
play and build as I go based on what feels right to do next. This 4th game is the only one I planned out.
Correction: Well, game 3 also started to get planned
(my post about how all the roads changes color with only one click). But in game 3 it was only the one sub-section that I planned out... and that was the initial starting point - the outside areas were not
"zoned-out".
This game 4 is the one where I zoned the majority of the first node; assuming I can even live long enough to expand to another land mass area. So to your question,
"will this planning ahead of time be the death of me? Who knows?! I haven't planned my games out before, not to this extent anyhow. ;D
Quote from: Nilla on September 07, 2019, 12:44:49 AM
To me; playing Banished in these "survival modes" is to watch and react; look at basic needs; primarily food, secondary tools and firewood and leave the rest; like building fancy roads, loads of stockpiles or "development buildings until you feel safe.
But this is what I want to know, I want to know how your game starts? I don't see you holding off on production chains, I imagine you trying to get them started at the very beginning like I try to do. You said you were going to write about your new game tomorrow so I guess I will have to wait to find out.
disasters off might not help you with the start, but it will avoid another obstacle later. it woud be sad to finally have food under control and finally be getting somewhere and a fire or tornado destroys all the hard work.
Good morning, it's 10:55 AM here and already 100° F inside
(I got no A/C) :-X
YEAR 1 - LAST TWO MONTHS: (Continuing from last time)
- January: Turned off the Wood Chopper and set him on the Grindstone to turn my remaining 20 Iron Tool into 20 Iron Tool*. Selected the next crop field up to be cleared of all materials so that it'll be ready when needed.
- February: Another kid off to school. That crop field got cleared and it's about late February now, almost time for Spring's planting. I think I will go ahead and activate this new Pumpkin field and let it get worked for as long as I can. Any additional food will help. I'm down to one person now switching between Laborer/Builder. It'll have to do. If I start to feel crunched I will steal the Farmer from the new Pumpkin field but I will at least try to hold off on doing that until Summer after it's been planted.
END OF YEAR SUMMARY:It just turned to March and the first year is over. In that remaining 1.5 months of the first year I went from 51 Logs to 127 from clearing that new crop field. I'll probably come close to getting all the Logs I'd like
(see below) and I got 7 out of 20 of those Iron Tools sharpened, Iron Tool*
END OF YEAR COUNTS:
- Homeless: 16
- Homes: 1
- Families: 6
- Logs: 127
- Stone: 38
- Iron: 13
- Firewood: 216
- Ore: 181
- Tools: 20-ish
- Food: 1,829
- Clothes: 9
- Clothed: 100%
- Educated: 91%
- Health: 0 Hearts
- Happiness: 3 Stars
Just a few questions;
1. Why do you not follow @Discrepancys advice and make bronze tools for the start? Save the rare iron for other things.
2. Why do you have a farmer assigned to the orchard when it grows? I would plant the orchard, take the farmer away until autumn the first year it gives fruit.
3. How long does it take to use 825 charcoal and what else can you make from these logs in the meantime?
Quote from: Nilla on September 07, 2019, 11:28:44 AM
Just a few questions;
1. Why do you not follow @Discrepancys advice and make bronze tools for the start? Save the rare iron for other things.
2. Why do you have a farmer assigned to the orchard when it grows? I would plant the orchard, take the farmer away until autumn the first year it gives fruit.
3. How long does it take to use 825 charcoal and what else can you make from these logs in the meantime?
(1) I don't know how much Tin Ore I will find in the
immediate vicinity and I also don't know how soon I will be able to get that advanced mine up to get any that way. For me, finding Tin Ore on the ground was about as equally scarce as finding Iron Ore. In my mind,
"If it's hard to get, save it!" So that's why I don't make Bronze Tools much - I did in my first two games though. That first and cheap starter mine really helps in getting the Iron Ore so I don't mind using some of that to make tools with especially since Iron Tool* > Bronze Tool*.
(2)Because I still have that
new car smell, ermm... novice player
"glow"! :P Though admittedly I am almost three months into Banished now maybe I should have moved on from that habit by this point but that's just the way I was
"taught" or learned from Luke's tutorials
(I think) and also from videos online - basically
every production structure needs an employee. I think
@brads3 tried to smack me upside the head the other day touching on that very point. :D I guess the same would go for pastures too eh?
I just can't help thinking that if I stole a farmer from a crop field, orchard or pasture then my outputs for those would be extremely low. So how soon can I yank them out of the crop fields, orchards and pastures? I play with the real calendar mod, you don't so when do you suggest? Early Spring they start planting, so how soon after do you remove them? When it changes to Early Summer? And you put them back in when it changes to Early Autumn? They already turn to temporary Laborers in the Winter if you don't yank them away so only the one season of extra help, Summer? Please advise, also about Pastures too if you don't mind.
(3)It lasts me a while, all that Charcoal but not forever; Banies steal some from time to time if I am low on Firewood for whatever reason. With the starvation struggles I had in my last three games I found that I didn't get much time trying to get the advanced materials needed for the advanced buildings so it takes me a long time, if ever, to get those made. So until I do I have to keep burning up my Charcoal in those Bloomerys which I know were only meant to be a temporary segway into the big boy buildings. Also the whole
"set it and forget it" type thing --> build it once and hopefully not have to worry about it again anytime soon; it's just one extra thing to get out of the way so I can try to concentrate on other things.
You don´t need much tin ore to make bronze. There isn´t much on the ground but why not use the little what is given before you start to mine for anything. I would never consider making bronze tools with ore that I mine for. I wouldn´t consider making iron tools either; only steel or hardened tools.
Field farmers are a bit difficult to take away from their fields, especially during the summer, not because they produce less if they are taken away when they don´t plant or harvest, but because it´s easy to forget to put them back in time for harvest, at least that´s what happens to me. In winter they work as labourers anyway so I seldom bother to re-employ field farmers. Orchard farmers, however, can be taken away for years; all the time from the last tree is planted until you see in spring that the orchard carries fruit. Some cunning modders (
@Tom Sawyer) has found a way to make the orchard give less fruit if it isn´t staffed during the summer but I haven´t seen a mod that gives you less fruit if the farmer is taken away the years it takes for the trees to grow.
Pastures are different depending on the mod; in some mods, all animals die if there is no herdsman, in some it doesn´t matter at all if you have one or not. Mostly it´s something in between; the herd grows faster if you have a herdsman. I usually employ 1 herdsman at each pasture. If I´m really short on workers, I might take them away for some time.
Quote from: MarkAnthony on September 07, 2019, 12:10:42 PM
So how soon can I yank them out of the crop fields, orchards and pastures? ... Early Spring they start planting, so how soon after do you remove them? When it changes to Early Summer? And you put them back in when it changes to Early Autumn?
@Nilla So when do I pull them away from their fields and orchards exactly? At those precise time-points I stated above? Or is it -- They start planting in Early Spring and you yank them out in
Spring? or
Late Spring? or do you wait until the next season of
Early Summer? Thanks for the clarification.
For the orchards, it´s not seasonal at all until the trees give fruit something like 3 years after planting. Just look when the last tree is planted, take the farmer away. 3 years later you see in spring that the orchard starts to give fruit. I would put the farmer back in late summer. The harvest of an orchard will not start until autumn unless it´s 100% developed earlier. If you´re short on workers you can take him away as soon as the last tree is harvested. It may still show that some fruit is left but it will not be harvested anyway. If you don´t take the orchard farmer away he will stay in his orchard hacking on the ground until early winter when he does labourer´s work.
In the same way, you can take the farmer away when the last tile is planted. You can also see that the field is fully planted when the harvest sign on the menu is on. Harvest of fields starts in early autumn or earlier if it´s 100% grown, so depending on the crop, I would send the farmer back in summer-late summer. But it´s easy to forget so I wouldn´t bother with the field farmers unless I was very much in "stress". Opposit to orchard farmers they also do labourer´s work as soon as the field is harvested.
Thank you very much for the explanation. I heard you and others say before, "oh, when it's done planting" and I'm like, "How do I know when they're done?" :-\ lol.
Seeing them on the field could very well just be eye-candy for us to watch and the game goes on, seeing them in the fields didn't necessarily have to mean anything. I mean they go about raking the fields long after they were planted so to me that meant either it's just eye-candy for us to watch or maybe they are actually doing something like pulling weeds and fertilizing it to give a better yield - so I was never sure as to what time precisely to remove them. So I never did.
2: not me that is a NILLA trick. it can be handy when low on workers. i do use the farmers in winter to gather food and help laborers thou. that is a different trick.her way you have to manually send the worker away from orchards so they become laborers. i would forget to turn the orchard back on and re assign the farmer.
this is a give and take deal too. her way she has to cut orchards every so often or the production drops off. with my mods the worker does that all by hismelf. plus on some orchards i can get some fruit the 1st year.
This has nothing to do with cutting the orchards. That´s one of the "tricks" I´m using when I´m short on logs. Cutting orchards or not is also something you need to deal with if you don´t use some mod that makes the trees immortal. I seldom use such mods but can understand those who do, it´s convenient. You don´t need to decide as soon as the trees start to die of "old age" if you should cut the whole orchard manually, replant it, take the farmer away for some years to do something else or leave the farmer in his orchard, take the lower yield for some years and don´t bother.
I rarely use orchards, they seem too little return for the investment of time, labor, and space. For some reason I just can't approach them with the patience I seem to have for the rest of the fussing around I get sucked into sometimes! ;D
yes and no. if you mean that part of the year a crop forester will help as a laborer,you do lose some time from the orchard farmers. i usually set the orchard to 12x12.since it keeps the worker busy all year,this gives more food than a 10x10 crop. depending on the mods,the pruning of the orchards has been modded out. even RED's orchards don't seem to need that cutting step.
you do have orchard forest options now. they will require at least 2 workers but give more variety to the outputs.
I like orchards as an extra reserve for logs not primary as food producers.
I know this about you ;) I know you would not do this if it didn't pay off, maybe I should give it another try.
Electrical storms really do irk me sometimes! I lost my internet last night for 14 hours after talking to Irrelevant. >:( :'(
YEAR TWO:
THIS YEAR'S GOAL: I'm gonna work the butt off of that eldest student as soon as she graduates from school, right now I only have the one Laborer. That kid has no idea what's in store for her, her head's gonna spin! :D I do want to try and get at least two more homes built this year, and one additional home fully supplied with materials for when the time comes. I'm hoping my population will grow by
at least three at end of year.
I'm also going to start clearing out any Stone, ore and Clay from the right-half of the town's Divider Line in what will be the forest hub. I'm only going to ground-select a few patches at a time so as to not overwhelm them too much. I'd like to try and get enough ore to make two medium sized 65 Bloomery Smelters
(Iron and Copper); I already have 61 and 110 respectively but I am already thinking about the next round after. The Copper I will keep for future building; the Iron will be used for tools of course, but when they are topped off I will put the rest towards some Iron-required buildings.
I also want to get a lot more Logs, I have 127 at this point. I'll need some for building, some for Firewood of course, and for my slow-but-steady Timber production from the Worker's Construction Yard. I'd also like to get my hands on an additional 315 Logs
(go big or go home!) for a batch of Charcoal. I currently have 98 Charcoal remaining so I won't be upset if I don't get enough Logs for this by end of year; the 98 Charcoal I already have should hopefully hold me over for a bit as I only need 26 Charcoal each for the two 65 Bloomery Smelters.
YEAR 2 - FIRST SIX MONTHS:
- March: Getting another crop field cleared for future use. Unpaused 2nd Log House and Sand Quarry, materials delivered to both. I don't need the Sand Quarry anytime soon but it was located right next to the Smith's Hearth and only needed 3 Logs to build so I decided to just get it done while they were there working. One new Student. Unpaused Smith's Hearth.
- May: Crop field cleared, sits unused.
- June: Another new Student. 2nd Log House built; a family of 5 moved in: 2 parents, 1 Student, 2 young children. The 1st Log House has 2 parents, 1 Adult child, 1 Student, and one young child.
- July: I have now set a 4"x6" inch area (on the monitor) in the forest hub for clearing of any Stone, ore and Clay. Sand Quarry built.
- August: Smith's Hearth built. Down to my last Iron Tool and Iron Tool* so I am setting the Blacksmith to making Copper Tool using Copper Ore and Charcoal. I'll stop the Blacksmith when he gets 15 tools made. Placed down a 77+11 Bronze Bloomery Smelter and also a 75 Iron Bloomery Smelter too for their near-future needs and to help free up space in the Stock Piles. Two of the crop fields have started harvesting.
YEAR 2 - LAST SIX MONTHS:
- September: All crop fields and orchards are being harvested now. Another Student. I just had my first Illness/Disease for the game, Atrophy, it got one of my Farmers.
- October: 1st Pumpkin field net me 868 vs 784 the year prior, the Pepper field net me 867 vs 849 the year prior.
- November: Atrophy gone. 2 New Students. 2nd Pumpkin field net me 785 for it's first year. Both Apple Orchards net me 520 vs 342/354 the year prior. I set priority to both Bloomery Smelters to get them supplied.
- January: New Student. Two small storage sheds unpaused in the forest hub area along with the Log House there too for the Gatherer and Forester to share when their time comes.
- February: New Laborer. Log House in the forest hub has all of it's materials delivered, assigning the new Laborer as it's Builder.
END OF YEAR SUMMARY: Things seemed to go kind of slow for some reason but I did get some extra food yield this year so I am thankful for that. I went backwards in tools from my starting Iron Tool to Copper Tool because I am still waiting for the Bronze Bloomery Smelter to get stocked with materials. It was taking so long to stock it that the Blacksmith took some of that Copper Ore to make Copper Tool so now I am a bit short on Copper Ore for the bloomery. Not thrilled with this year's progress.
END OF YEAR COUNTS:
- Homeless: 11
- Homes: 2
- Families: 7
- Logs: 100
- Stone: 22
- Iron: 13
- Firewood: 52
- Ore: 102
- Tools: 6
- Food: 2,948
- Clothes: 9
- Clothed: 100%
- Educated: 92%
- Health: 0 Hearts
- Happiness: 3 Stars
YEAR THREE:
THIS YEAR'S GOAL: Hoping to get those Bloomery Smelters fired up and worked; the forest hub completed (Gatherer's hut, Forester Lodge, 2 Log Houses, 2 storage sheds); and to try and get the rest of the forest hub cleared of all Stone, ore, and Clay.
YEAR 3 - FIRST SIX MONTHS:
- March: Both storage sheds have their materials delivered and are waiting for the Log House to get finished.
- May: Took the Blacksmith off tool making and sent him back to the making Firewood. The forest hub's Log House #3 was built, a family of 5 moved in: 2 parents, 3 Students.
- July: Both storage sheds in forester hub built. Builder is now beginning to build the Iron Bloomery Smelter.
YEAR 3 - LAST SIX MONTHS:
- September: Low on tools again, nothing I can do about it until those smelters are built and running. Added Laborer as 2nd Builder on Iron Bloomery Smelter currently at 40%; I will have a tool crisis again. New Laborer but unfortunately he cannot help with the iron bloomery. Pepper field gave full harvest 868. Tool crisis beginning. Another new Laborer.
- October: Another new Laborer. New Student, no more young children - all adults and Students now. Two Pumpkin fields net me 764 + 868.
- November: Both Apple Orchards netted me a loss, 432+312 vs 520 each the year prior. Set the last crop field for clearing because I need some Logs and I may as well take them from there.
- December: Sent the Woodcutter back to making tools again, scraped up some Copper Ore from the ground, 6 people need tools. Iron Bloomery Smelter finally built, assigned another Blacksmith to it. Bronze Bloomery Smelter finally has all it's materials, the two Builders from the other smelter are here now to set it up.
- January: 10 out of 15 people need tools now, still waiting.
- February: New Laborer, assigned him to the 4th crop field which is the 2nd Pepper field; just in time for Early Spring's planting.
END OF YEAR SUMMARY: Again I asked too much of the 1 Laborer and 1 Builder that I had, things went slower than I had hoped. I really wanted those smelters up and running and completed before year's end but that didn't happen. I knew those tool crisis' were inevitable.
END OF YEAR COUNTS:
- Homeless: 6
- Homes: 3
- Families: 11
- Logs: 152
- Stone: 22
- Iron: 25
- Firewood: 76
- Ore: 172
- Tools: 2
- Food: 3,738
- Clothes: 9
- Clothed: 100%
- Educated: 94%
- Health: 0 Hearts
- Happiness: 3 Stars
You´re not doing badly. Slow is the key. And forget what I said about the orchards. You seem to use some super-better-orchards mod. Otherwise, no orchard gives fruit in the first years. You will probably also not have to bother about replanting any tress, I guess they will be immortal.
But that´s not what I really wanted to say. I might have a theory for your failure in the last town, given by things going around in my town at the moment. I will play another year or two and say more later but please answer one question; did you have a herbalist in these games?
Quote from: Nilla on September 08, 2019, 11:12:06 AM... please answer one question; did you have a herbalist in these games?
I have one placed down from my pre-planning stage in this game but I haven't set it for building yet. I did have an herbalist in one of my previous DSIM Beta v.05 games but I saw at best a 1/2 Heart gain I think it was.
Quote from: Nilla on September 08, 2019, 11:12:06 AM
And forget what I said about the orchards. You seem to use some super-better-orchards mod. Otherwise, no orchard gives fruit in the first years. You will probably also not have to bother about replanting any tress, I guess they will be immortal.
Yeah Nilla ;D After I failed miserably from starvation in those first three DSIM Beta v.05 games that was when I installed the ForgetAboutOrchards and HotCrops mods along with the food preservation mods. I never did get any use from the food preservation mods but I'm gladly accepting the help of the two crop-tweaks.
BUT - Last night after I lost internet and could no longer keep in touch here at the forums, I decided to start a another side-game for myself, DSIM Beta v.05 again but this time I removed all tweak mods completely and also removed other DS mods!!! I think this is about as "pure" as I will go. :P
I had already gotten to year 3 I think and yeah, I feel the difference with the orchards for sure. I really do like that ForgetAboutOrchards mod, it's truly hassle free!
Maybe your Bannish should have done what those from
@Artfactial did; burned that witch/sorcerer on a public place for causing famine and starvation.
Look what just happened in my town: I am very careful by using any herbalists. I only make some experiment when I have a good supply on all food categories that are (as I think) good distributed to all corners of the settlement. I thought it was the case at the moment. I wanted to cure my vendors and traders, sick from fast-food-on-the-way. And I also thought it worked quite well. Health rose to 4½ hearts.
The first sign of weird things; the store of flax rose and flax was shown on my "top 10" list from the overseer's list. It shouldn't be, so I looked at the weaver and saw that it produced really bad, this year much less than the already low production from last year. When I looked at what the workers were doing, I discovered them all over the place; "visiting the herbalist". Not only the closest also those very far away. I don´t know, maybe he had a better reputation for wonder healing.
I looked a little further and saw that the tailor produced even worse. It uses to produce 100+ of warm coats. This year it was 16! I also found the 0 heart tailor on the other side of the river visiting the "town herbalist" in his fancy house rather than the closest. I looked into all the Bryggen houses and it looks like they think they are fancy city folks and refuse to walk the few yards through the forest to the wagon vendor I put there to serve them, as well as the workers of the close forest node. They prefer to grab mutton from the closest barn and when they aren´t feeling well walk all around the map instead of producing. >:( ::)
Maybe your Bannis did something similar
@MarkAnthony.
That's great that you got 4.5 Hearts in Health, heck... I'd be tickled just to see mine at 1 Heart again. I don't know how long it took you to get your Health up or how but grats!
At least your Banies are dying of old age! haha... mine didn't get the opportunity to live such a full life in my previous three games.
4,5 heart looks nice but not so nice if it takes up to 90% of the production away. :-\ And it took long; these some 30 years. I had the herbalists built a long time. I also had bought a lot of herbs but my other games have shown me how careful you need to be.
So, my advice; unless you are absolutely certain of what you are doing; NO HERBALISTS!
YEAR FOUR:
THIS YEAR'S GOAL: The smelters should get done this year and I will have the Blacksmith make Bronze tools when they are. The forester hub still needs to be cleared of all debris and hopefully I will get the 2nd Log House in the forester hub built and then the Forester Lodge and Gatherers Hut too. Just concentrating on that section this year.
YEAR 4 - FIRST SIX MONTHS:
- April: Bronze Bloomery Smelter finally built, assigned another Blacksmith to do the work.
- May: Iron Bloomery Smelter done, net 30 Iron. Took the Blacksmith from the completed iron bloomery and put him to work as a Laborer; the forest hub area still needs to be cleaned up. I have 4 Laborers at this point for clearing, and 1 Builder let loose on the roads that were neglected the last 2.5 years.
- June: Unpaused 2nd Log House in the forest hub area since they are in the area clearing it of debris. Still got my tool crisis going on 13 need tools now, the Smith's Hearth Blacksmith can't keep up with Copper Tool production. I'll suffer through it and wait until the bronze bloomery is fully worked. Another new Laborer to help.
- July: 2nd Log House in the forester area has it's materials already, the road builder will probably make his way there. No rush really. Just got my 2nd case of Atrophy and once again it's a Farmer. Another new Laborer.
- August: Since I have 6 Laborers in the forest hub area clearing it I unpaused the Gatherer's Hut and Forester Lodge. Atrophy gone.
YEAR 4 - LAST SIX MONTHS:
- September: One more Laborer. Things are going so slow without tools 13 people now need, bronze bloomery just sitting at 55%, pfft!
- October: Bronze Bloomery Smelter done, net 33 Bronze. Setting Smith's Hearth Blacksmith to making Bronze Tool, will also set another Blacksmith at the Grindstone to enhance them. These need to last!
- November: Smith's Hearth Blacksmith hasn't made any Bronze Tool yet since he finished his last batch of Copper Tool first, went from 13 needing tools to 0! Progress finally! Gatherers Hut is done, 1 Gatherer. All crops and orchards are finally harvested. Apple Orchards net -18 from the previous year which in itself was less than the year before that. The Apple trees looked sickly this year lol. The Pumpkin fields produced 464 less than last year. New Pepper field produced 382, that's bad; even worse is the original Pepper field which gave me 83 this year!!! What's going on here?! A total loss on all food this year. Forester Lodge done, 1 Forester. 2nd forester Log House done, a family of 4 moved in: 2 parents and 2 Laborers.
- December: Got enough Laborers now so I am going to make the Woodcutter full time. I neglected Firewood dealing with my metal and tool issue that the Banies took all my Charcoal, now I have neither Firewood or Charcoal for heating. Woodcutter told me, "I got this!".
- February: I'm a long ways off from that Charcoal dream I had, need 315 Logs only have 57. I unpaused that Charcoal Pile to get it filled with materials over time. It'll probably be a couple more years at least; we'll see! A child was born, the town won't die off after all (had adults and Students only for a while) unless... my food yields have another aweful year.
END OF YEAR SUMMARY: What the heck happened to my food production? That forest hub area I had set for clearing wasn't far away; I am a bit short on homes so maybe some travel issues there but I did get several new Laborers so the Farmers didn't need to hang around in the forest hub area if that's what they were doing. I didn't watch them since I was too concerned with metal and tool production. I didn't even realize I was having a food issue until I saw the late harvest and the super-low counts! Whatever, we were all having a bad year so let's forgive and move on!
END OF YEAR COUNTS:
- Population: 20/1/1(forgot to add this stat before)
- Homeless: 2
- Homes: 4
- Families: 15
- Logs: 0
- Stone: 107
- Iron: 43
- Firewood: 0
- Ore: 530
- Tools: 12
- Food: 4,064
- Clothes: 8
- Clothed: 100%
- Educated: 95%
- Health: 0 Hearts
- Happiness: 3 Stars
QuoteThe forester hub still needs to be cleared of all debris
What do you mean? Why do you put so much effort into clearing this area? Foresters are excellent "clearer" you don´t need to do that in advance (unless you really need the stone or what there is right now at the moment).
Can´t explain what happened to your food production. Bad weather in combination with no tools maybe. Look what happens at the fields the next season and try to find out.
Quote from: Nilla on September 08, 2019, 03:08:56 PM
QuoteThe forester hub still needs to be cleared of all debris
What do you mean? Why do you put so much effort into clearing this area? Foresters are excellent "clearer"
Again, just the way us newbies are taught when we watch videos or read forum posts here, it's common practice isn't it to clean up the radius circles of miscellaneous stuff that don't belong to the building in that circle? Sure, the Forester is great at picking up stuff like you said, any tile, any where, any time but doesn't that also means the more he picks up the less he's doing his normal job?
And yeah I needed the Stone at the time and the Copper Ore during my tool crisis so I took it from that area since it wasn't all that far and it helps the Forester when it becomes time for him to do his thing. I have zero logs as of last logout; so the more logs he gets me the better.
Quote from: MarkAnthony on September 08, 2019, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: Nilla on September 08, 2019, 03:08:56 PM
QuoteThe forester hub still needs to be cleared of all debris
What do you mean? Why do you put so much effort into clearing this area? Foresters are excellent "clearer"
the more he picks up the less he's doing his normal job?
His normal job is clearing out all that stuff. Unless I need the stone urgently, I always let the forester manage his circle. He'll get it all himself, eventually, and leave the laborers free to do other tasks.
time and a place for this idea. i do send laborers, WHEN THEY HAVE TIME, to collect stone from forest areas.this is so those areas will produce more food. this is a very low priority job and does not get doe all the time every map.
there are several drawbacks to clearing land completely. 1>if you have the resources you will use them. gather all the stone, and then "hey i have so much i can build and build."then you run out.
2> cut all the trees and now the start wood cutter is less productive. he will need to walk way over to whereever work is being done to find logs.his supply pile will always be empty.
3> depending on mod setups, food does spawn from stuff that you just cleared.now there is less food close by for the farmers in the fall.this "extra food or herbs" can be quite handy if you run short.
it does look better for pics to cut down the trees. it can be handy to clear an area that will become a huge pasture or city.so clear this year, before building next year.
Brad, I wasn't clear-cutting the forester hub, just removing ore and stone and clay - that's it. Those don't spawn food in anyone's game.
EDIT: I was being sarcastic / depends on how you read your comment. More importantly, I forgot to put this ----> :P
Thanks for all the informative and interesting discussions :)
The variables we have that alter and dictate what the herbalist does are few, and I'm still trying to work out if the changes I'm making are doing anything or instead altering the function of the doctor. This last week I haven't had time to do any modding or testing, so this week it will be a priority to work more on the health elements of this mod.
@MarkAnthony though it might seem the better option to build a large charcoal pile, I would caution against this at the start of the game and instead build a series of smaller piles. Never build a pile any larger than the amount of logs you have at that time, the same goes for the bloomery smelters and their requirements. I will generally build smaller ones first, and once expired not bother demolishing and instead build a group of 5-6, and only demolish the spent piles slowly over many years when I need the room, adding a new one to be built when required.
The large drop in food production could be due to a combined, layering effect of a tool crisis resulting in poor work output, with low health and moderately happy bannies who will be idling more often, and not achieve the desired work to be happy in their job. So they idle more, look for a tool that isn't there, and then food which may be low in number and not a broad range for nutrition. In this mod you are using more fuel in homes, so if you have a low supply they will be competing for the fuel, and having to return home regularly to replenish supplies.
Quote from: Discrepancy on September 08, 2019, 11:14:27 PM
The large drop in food production could be due to a combined, layering effect of a tool crisis resulting in poor work output, with low health and moderately happy bannies who will be idling more often, and not achieve the desired work to be happy in their job. So they idle more, look for a tool that isn't there, and then food which may be low in number and not a broad range for nutrition. In this mod you are using more fuel in homes, so if you have a low supply they will be competing for the fuel, and having to return home regularly to replenish supplies.
I know tools were a large part of it, but it's likely also what you said about competing for fuel; I was so focused on getting that metal made to make tools that I didn't even notice my fuel shortage happening in the background as well.
I did something similar, got so focused on the metal chase that I lost track of getting baby Bannies made.