I downloaded the beta of the latest version of
@Tom Sawyer´s very nice mod and started a new game. It was quite late, so I didn't get very far, but I have a few impressions:
First I had a crash.
I had a bunch of mods loaded, so I suppose there's some real conflict, but it really doesn't matter. I wanted to make this test "pure", with only the Nordic mod, anyway. After all other mods were gone, there were no more problems.
As usual, I didn't put much effort in choosing "the right" map. I like these big lakes, and I like this Micky Mouse lake especially. The starting position seemed alright, so the first map was started. Later I discovered, that it was a small mistake. There are 7 children. That's too much with an impossible start with only 6 adults. I also made the mistake, to start to build up a tool production right after the first house and barn. I should have started with the school, to get at least some of them educated. Now I didn't and I have to bother with all these uneducated, who mess up my tool production, because as usual; the uneducated prefer the professions of blacksmiths and tailors and with this mod; they like smelter, too. :( >:( ;)
In any case; I have produced some tools and clothing. I'm not sure how much material was spoiled by the uneducated and can certainly not say anything about the production numbers. But I can say, that the long production chain makes it more complicated to get tools, but as you can see; not impossible. :) ;)
First pictureMap seed and settings. If you look carefully in the snow, you might see the iron spots.
Second pictureI have started to build houses for the uneducated as far away from the tool production area as possible.
Nice to see you at a new map with the test version. I hope your Hitchco will not be a Hitchcock thriller for me... ;D
In this version you don't need to care about uneducated blacksmiths and tailors. They have the same penalty of 3/4 like the other professions. I changed it in this way because there is no possibility to control this issue and it was annoying for the player.
cannot be unseen, the map looks like mickey mouse.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 08, 2016, 01:38:08 PM
Nice to see you at a new map with the test version. I hope your Hitchco will not be a Hitchcock thriller for me... ;D
In this version you don't need to care about uneducated blacksmiths and tailors. They have the same penalty of 3/4 like the other professions. I changed it in this way because there is no possibility to control this issue and it was annoying for the player.
We will see, it's the random name given from start, maybe it's an omen! ;) :-\
So you say, all production sites have the same uneducated penalty? Good to know. I was wondering a bit, that I managed to produce some tools at the beginning with so many uneducated. It doesn't matter much now, the initial uneducated are getting old and I don't intend to take any nomads.
I went on playing yesterday. I know my weakness; my threads have a tendency of being too long and I guess this one will be, too. So here is the short version:
I've played about 10 years. These are my impression so far.
1. It's hard!
2. Toolproduction works.
3. The new trading values are surely interesting!
And here is the long version:
Tool production is a long chain, involving many people. These people aren't available for other things, like food production. Of cause that makes the game harder at the beginning. You also have to alter the people between the sites a lot more than usually. It's also difficult to control, how much you have in your stores of each component. As I wanted to build my trading port (it's one of the few buildings, that still needs iron) I noticed, that I had processed all iron to steel. It didn't take too long to produce enough iron but still; more difficult than earlier versions. Since I hadn't produced anything in this chain continuously yet, I can't say much to the production numbers. So far it looks alright to me.
I have 2 suggestions to improve the handling of toolmaking:
-Go back to store the materials on stockpiles.
Since they are not shown separately on any menu, you have to search through the barns to look what materials you have, before you have a town hall and that's no fun. Even after the townhall is built, you have to look carefully at the inventory. And that's not so funny either. If the materials were stored on stockpiles, a quick look would be enough to see, that there are a big pile of charcoal, iron bloom or whatever. I don't know, why you changed it in the first place. Until now it didn't matter, but with this long production chain, it's a bit inconvenient.
-Make the menu of the blacksmith larger
Now it contains two lines. If I produce iron, steel and steeltools the same year at the same blacksmith, I can't see how much steeltools he produced. I would like to know.
Now to my first impressions of the trade
I built the trading port, stopped the game, put 1 of each good and took a look. WOW! This is something! (First picture) This will be fun to test!
Than the first merchant, one for export goods arrived and I was chocked! This "son of a bitch" pays less, than these official prizes! What is this! The nice utopia, where the merchant works for nothing; delivering everything you want and demanding the same price, if he sells it as he pays you, if he buys it, is taken away. This greedy capitalistic society, where a merchant wants more then "air and love" (Luft und Liebe as you Germans say) introduced to Banished. What should I say? :-\ .........GREAT IDEA! :)
Since I haven't traded much yet, I can't say much to how it works but these are my first thoughts, for what it's worth;
It is probably a very good strategy, to be selfsufficient on as many things as possible, especially on food.
The merchant takes 25%. If you order something, it's another 25 (20?) %. And with these prices, you have this "ordering fee" on everything. It's tough. I can't say yet, if it's too much, if it makes import of larger amount of food just harder or quite impossible. It depends much on how profitable the export goods are. We will see.
The only thing that's worth 1, is selling fish. If fish was too profitable in your very first version @Tom Sawyer , it might be a little bit too bad here. The merchant also have a 100% profit on fish. I said it; He's a bastard! But the same here, the game will show, how it works later.
I also see you have taken away the penning. I don't think that it's a good idea. The merchant shouldn't bring a lot of it, but I had this: One of the early merchants brought 4 chicken. 1 chicken cost 40, 4 chickens 160. I only had 13 daler. Why should I pay 2 daler and give this greedy scoundrel a tip of 40? No way! No chicken! >:( ;) (I know, I'm the greedy one but at the beginning every fish, every piece of firewood is important and I want to have the feeling, that I'm not wasting anything unnecessarily)
You have also taken away the importance of the money. I will think about the consequences and tell you what I think later.
I also have two suggestions to improvethe trade.
-Give us the penning back, just a few.
-If you take a look into the tradingport menu, it shows the prices the merchant demands, if you buy these things. But you don't want to buy, you want to sell these goods. I would prefere, that the prices the merchant pays are shown. (Don't know if it's possible to change)
I think I made another mistake, as I choose this map; it only have one small stream for crayfish down in the south west. I will expand that way, but it will take some time. Anyhow, I don't think it matters much. Unless you can make booze from fish, it will take some time to get enough surplus of anything to make some alcoholic beverage. So the crayfishparty must wait. We will see if it ever will be possible.
A little something to the pictures
First pictureNew prizes if you buy the stuff. The merchant pays you at least 25% less. You can see that I have big health problems. The people have to feed mainly on fish.
Second pictureI've finally built a city hall. I cut in some graphs. I'm still struggling with the health. You can't see it, but I don't build houses for every couple. I will let the population grow slowly. I have ordered sheep, but since I turned his chicken down, the crooked seed and animal merchant doesn't visit me anymore. >:(
Quote from: Nilla on October 09, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
- Go back to store the materials on stockpiles.
Yes, it would be very pleasant to see more stored resources on the map. But all of them need different models of nice looking piles. Logs, stones and bricks are suitable, but how to pile charcoal, iron ore and bloom and all upcoming resources such as silver, copper and so on. I will try to model some piles. And maybe some of them on piles and the others in barns. Or not in barns but in special locations, that we don't need to look at all (food) barns here and there. It's old hat to separate barns for food and goods but it could make sense here. We can use the warehouse with or without the 'market function' and barns would be for food and consumable goods only, not for industrial raw materials. Would be realistic and could solve the issue of scattered materials.
Quote from: Nilla on October 09, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
... before you have a town hall and that's no fun.
The town hall could be replaced by a suitable smaller (Nordic) building. Just to get the statistics in early game.
Quote from: Nilla on October 09, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
- Make the menu of the blacksmith larger
Good idea and a simple fix.
Quote from: Nilla on October 09, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
- Give us the penning back, just a few.
There were some reasons to remove the penning because of the new merchants. But it's also possible to keep it with a small amount. I don't want that the player has the feeling to waste anything unnecessarily.
Quote from: Nilla on October 09, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
- If you take a look into the tradingport menu, it shows the prices the merchant demands, if you buy these things. But you don't want to buy, you want to sell these goods. I would prefere, that the prices the merchant pays are shown. (Don't know if it's possible to change)
Not possible.
Quote from: Nilla on October 09, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
If fish was too profitable in your very first version @Tom Sawyer , it might be a little bit too bad here.
Maybe you are right but lets talk about it when you have played a bit more with the bastards.^^ The idea behind the fish price was that this food is perishable and difficult to trade without loss. That's why the merchants need the high profit. Fruits and veges have a range of 3:2 and grain (not perishable) have the best ratio of 4:3. All suitable trading goods have it. Stockfish could be a typical Nordic product with a good trade ratio (4:3) instead of freshly caught fish (2:1). It's already included in NMT but could be a more important part of the Nordic game.
Quote from: Nilla on October 09, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
... the crayfishparty must wait.
Business before pleasure. ;D
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2016, 12:33:41 PM
Yes, it would be very pleasant to see more stored resources on the map. But all of them need different models of nice looking piles. Logs, stones and bricks are suitable, but how to pile charcoal, iron ore and bloom and all upcoming resources such as silver, copper and so on. I will try to model some piles. And maybe some of them on piles and the others in barns. Or not in barns but in special locations, that we don't need to look at all (food) barns here and there. It's old hat to separate barns for food and goods but it could make sense here. We can use the warehouse with or without the 'market function' and barns would be for food and consumable goods only, not for industrial raw materials. Would be realistic and could solve the issue of scattered materials.
I suppose, you are right. It would be hard to see the difference between the materials on stockpiles in winter anyway, and the winter is long. Maybe as you say, a special industrial barn is better. If you don't want to put too much work into it, you could use your two smaller barns as model; make them red for "costum goods" and brown for "industrial purposes.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2016, 12:33:41 PM
The town hall could be replaced by a suitable smaller (Nordic) building. Just to get the statistics in early game.
I like the idea of a Nordic city hall. The vanilla version doesn't really fit in Nordic surroundings (same as the church and the hospital). I think it should be in the style of your other buildings and than it would need bricks and rooftiles. That's no early materials anyway. So the idea of the industrial barns is better for a more relaxed start.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2016, 12:33:41 PM
There were some reasons to remove the penning because of the new merchants. But it's also possible to keep it with a small amount. I don't want that the player has the feeling to waste anything unnecessarily.
If it brings some trouble, that I haven't thought of, it's not such a big thing. It's just me being "stingy". If I think about it; the only time, you have to give this "tip", is if you want to buy chicken (or maybe also if you order some things from the seed and animal merchant). In other cases, I use fish as "small coins" to adjust the deal.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2016, 12:33:41 PM
Maybe you are right but lets talk about it when you have played a bit more with the bastards.^^ The idea behind the fish price was that this food is perishable and difficult to trade without loss. That's why the merchants need the high profit. Fruits and veges have a range of 3:2 and grain (not perishable) have the best ratio of 4:3. All suitable trading goods have it. Stockfish could be a typical Nordic product with a good trade ratio (4:3) instead of freshly caught fish (2:1). It's already included in NMT but could be a more important part of the Nordic game.
I think it works with fish worth 1. If you doubled it, it would be to much. A decent fisher produces a trade value of about 600. That's alright. If you doubled it, it would be in the same range as a charcoalburner or a smelter and that would be too much.
I like the idea behind the price difference between selling and buying. And I always thought, that the ideas from
@RedKetchup in the NMT, to dry the food was excellent. I would like that (or something similar) included in the Nordic mod. As you said, it would fit historically. Perhaps you could ask him if you could use it. Maybe you could also introduce salt. Not to produce but as a trading good, that had to be imported. Salting was a very common method of preservation and salt was historically one of the main import goods.
You might see
@Tom Sayer, that I've changed my mind about some of my initial suggestions, so take it for what it is; thoughts, impressions, a base for discussion. I hope it's what you want and that you don't mind or feel offended.
Now to what I played yesterday.
First pictureIt took until year 13, I even had to build a second trading port, but finally the merchant for seeds and animals arrived. The things he brought wasn't perfect, but cherries had shown to grow decent in the past, so I bought the seeds. Unfortunately I forgot to order potatoes, but soon a second merchant arrived with bean- and apple seeds and than I ordered the potatoes. It doesn't look as if the numbers of the crops are changed. Potatoes and apples still seem to be the best vegetable/fruit.
You can see that at this time, I still have problems with health. There is enough food, but I can't increase the stores; it's just enough, not more. Good! :)
In the port you see at my picture, I sell logs, venison and fish. I also sell charcoal, iron bloom and steel tools, when I have enough of it. One of the very nice things with the Nordic mod from the first version on was, that there's no obvious "best trading" good. In this version there are even more options. I have no idea, what the best thing is. Presently my strategy is to sell goods, I have a little more of, than I need. As far as I have looked into it; everything brings a decent profit, some more, some less. I have said it before; I'm really impressed of your balancing
@Tom Sayer! One example: There were just enough iron ore on the ground to use, until I had enough people to assign a couple of miners. By the way, I like your mine. It has a huge footprint, so it was a little bit hard to find a place for it. But it seems like it never runs out, so it's OK.
Second pictureHere you can see, that things have turned out quite well. There's still no big stores of food, but now at least I feel a little bit more secure. Health has improved a lot. I could buy wheat, herbs (ordered by some merchants) and also some fruit and vegetables (not ordered), that together with my farming products, improved the situation.
One "funny" :-\ thing to tell: The first years of farming, before I could buy the herbs, the harvest was really bad. I was annoyed by these damned farmers. As soon as I started the harvest (at harsh you always have to start the harvest manual, if you want anything from your fields and orchards) they ran away to the herbalist! Every year the same! Of cause they did. I hadn't enough herbs. The few I had, were collected in summer. And to the same time as the harvest should have begun, there were herbs for everyone, also for the farmers. So, the harvest must wait! Up to the herbalist, before someone else take the herbs. >:(
I´ve lost one star. There have been a lot of deaths; normal old age, but also a lot of childbirth deaths and accidents. The population doesn't grow presently. There are only few young girls and a lot of old bachelors, living at their parents. Have you changed anything here,
@Tom Sawyer ? Or maybe these mysterious deaths is the Hitchcock influence.......... ???
I want to hear every thought, reasoned or not. I like this discussion. It brings new ideas and better balancing and I'm never offended.
I like the idea of nordic fish processing. It could be stockfish (just dried) and klippfish (with imported salt) and if we want a third product, lye fish / lutefisk ... you know? Maybe too special but the fish factory is now on my list and 3 products with different effort and prices would be perfect. The only thing is that these products are made from cod and not from salmon. But to catch cod in the river would be weird. What do the Nordic experts think?
Town hall, hospital and a church are also on my list. Maybe next version.
To differ the storage buildings by color is a good idea. Anyway, I want to try a few models of piled materials. Maybe in form of open crates with bulk goods such as ore and coal. To see some of these materials on the map would be the best game experience, as you said.
Yes, chickens are the only special trade good that can not exactly paid without pennies (a sheep 3 dalers, a cow 8 dalers, seeds 25). A chicken could be exactly 1 daler instead of 40 penning. But before you use fish as small coins ( :o ) I will keep the pennings.
Yes, temperature ranges of crops are unchanged to version 3. And I don't have changed anything with the citizens. The required area of the mine is similar to the vanilla mine. It avoids mine entrances close together and if the mountain is to small to place a mine, then there is no ore or coal deposit... ;)
The river connects to the sea.
Why not make a shore-bound fish-factory?
With possible landing docks.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 10, 2016, 07:55:30 AM
I want to hear every thought, reasoned or not. I like this discussion. It brings new ideas and better balancing and I'm never offended.
You will! :-\ :)
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 10, 2016, 07:55:30 AM
I like the idea of nordic fish processing. It could be stockfish (just dried) and klippfish (with imported salt) and if we want a third product, lye fish / lutefisk ... you know? Maybe too special but the fish factory is now on my list and 3 products with different effort and prices would be perfect. The only thing is that these products are made from cod and not from salmon. But to catch cod in the river would be weird. What do the Nordic experts think?
Quote from: kid1293 on October 10, 2016, 08:02:46 AM
The river connects to the sea.
Why not make a shore-bound fish-factory?
With possible landing docks.
It's a good idea to connect a fish factory to the river, but you don't need cod to process fish. Salmon often was and still is processed; smoked or "gravad" Google says marinated, but it's a special marination with much salt. I have never heard of dried salmon, but other lake fish could be dried; like "lake", burbot (if Google translation is right and yes, lake isn't the water, where the fish swims, but the name of the fish!). Lutfisk, the Swedish name of this dried, and then marinated fish, that we eat at Christmas, is as far as I know made from "lake"/burbot (freshwater fish) or "långa"/ling fish (seewater fish). Maybe it's different in Norway, they might use cod. Maybe
@Pangaea knows more.
But also other kind of food; meat, vegetables and fruit were dried or at least the meat, salted. But fish might be a good start.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 10, 2016, 07:55:30 AM
Yes, chickens are the only special trade good that can not exactly paid without pennies (a sheep 3 dalers, a cow 8 dalers, seeds 25). A chicken could be exactly 1 daler instead of 40 penning. But before you use fish as small coins ( :o ) I will keep the pennings.
Perhaps the chicken could cost 50, sold in pairs. But with penningar, it doesn't matter.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 10, 2016, 07:55:30 AM
And I don't have changed anything with the citizens. The required area of the mine is similar to the vanilla mine. It avoids mine entrances close together and if the mountain is to small to place a mine, then there is no ore or coal deposit... ;)
I had the impression that it was bigger. So the mountains at my starting position must have bin unsuitable for mines, not much ore. But I finally found a good place. I had to put it on exactly that spot, one tile right or left didn't work. Random factor, like my many deaths. Or should we say Hitchcock factor in that later case. ;)
And to that other thread; make a flagpole if you want to. As you say; it's common in our countries.
I played a few more years. Things have turned out quite well.
First pictureI can now afford my beloved red houses. :) But the hospital and the townhall in the background doesn't really fit the picture. I'm glad, that you have plans to replace them,
@Tom Sawyer. Sure, we have some old stone buildings; churches, castles, big houses, but unless it's really a ruin, they use to have a chalk layer and sometimes paint. Stone ruins often shows traces of that.
I've cut in some graphs: population grows, food store grows, health increases and happiness at least doesn't drop anymore, but the many deaths in a short time, will influence the happiness for some time. I should probably have built a graveyard. :-\
Second pictureI promised to think a little about the daler. In the latest version you couldn't buy anything without daler, now their importans is smaller.
At the beginning of a game you'll need some to buy seeds and animals. After that, you don't really need any coins. But they are still useful. Now; still early in the game, manpower is valuable. I have to "micromanage" a lot. Especially during the harvest. I can't afford to have many "unproductive" traders. This picture shows very good, the use of daler in this part of the game. I can't exactly remember what I bought from the last merchant, but since there's not much goods left, I suppose it was food (I buy as much grain, I can afford and still some fruit). My only trader hasn't had much time to fill the stores, but I have 100 daler in trading port and can buy 2000 wheat if I want to. :)
Later in the game, when you want to buy much from each merchant and need more goods in the port, the daler might be helpful, too. You can store a high value in the port, without filling it so much, that you can't buy much goods, before the port is filled to 100%.
Still, the importance of the coins is small. I think it's a pity. You have introduced something new into the game,
@Tom Sawyer and I would like it, to be more important, than it is now. What if the merchants give some kind of discount, if you pay with coins? I suppose it could not be made directly but I think with "tricks"; either you pay less for the daler by the export merchant; say 80-90 (there should still be some profit for the merchant left) or the other merchants give you more for the daler you "bought" for 100, say 110-120. Maybe this would need some small adjustment on some of the trading prices/production numbers (it shouldn't be too profitable to trade). Maybe you could think about it.
Third pictureHave you taken away both roots and onions? I have discovered that the gatherers only collect berries, mushrooms and firewood.
You can see my stores. This year, the harvest was really miserable, less than ½ of normal. The temperature didn't once reached 10 C, so there wasn't much to harvest. :( Still I won't starve, I have food in my stores and if it's getting really bad, I can put more fisher into my fishing docks. I like to have less workers in these kind of plants, that occupies more than one. It's easy to increase the production fast, if needed. :)
Quote from: Nilla on October 11, 2016, 05:09:22 AM
What if the merchants give some kind of discount, if you pay with coins? I suppose it could not be made directly but I think with "tricks"; either you pay less for the daler by the export merchant
I had in mind that a timber merchant for example will pay the best price for logs (12 instead of 9). It would be reasonable because he really wants the material for a special demand and you can make a good deal. It's also possible to let pay the full price by all export merchants in the general post, especially for logs or for more or all kinds of resources. It would remove the new price range if you trade with the export merchants for money. You would lost the control of it if you use auto purchasing in the general post and it would be better to have the specialized post. I should make this timber trading post instead of talking about it since a long time. ;)
Quote from: Nilla on October 11, 2016, 05:09:22 AM
Have you taken away both roots and onions? I have discovered that the gatherers only collect berries, mushrooms and firewood.
They are not removed but maybe too rare now. It's a quest for Nordic adventurers: Go to the woods and find out whats happened with onions and roots. :)
To the trading post.
Don't spend to much effort
@Tom Sawyer on making the autotrading perfect. No bugs, like in the earlier version, but a disadvantage in some cases, doesn't really matter. I promise, I will test it sometime later in this game, but I don't think, I would really want to use it.
Why?
First, if you play the Nordic mod under harsh conditions, you will trade, you need to trade, but I don't think you could support your population mainly with trade; you will not need a lot of trading ports. It's no big trouble to handle a few manually.
Second and most important; now I sell a lot of different goods. (See last picture) I export two categories of goods; high value food (and some fish as loose change) ;D ::) and the surplus of all other goods that make a decent profit; charcoal, tools, clothes, logs, herbs........... I store a suitable amount of all these things in my ports and when a merchant arrives, who sells something I want, I look into the inventory, to see what I can sell. I can't sell everything every time. I need these things, too. This strategy wouldn't work with autotrading. Autotrading only works, if you have few goods to sell and you must either have a huge overproduction (vanilla firewood) or really not need it (vanilla ale). As far as I see, there are no goods like this in the Nordic mod. Thanks for that!
And to a special timber merchant; I wouldn't want one, that buys mainly logs. It's an important export good at the beginning of the game but now, I still have some in the port, but I seldom sell any. Even if the logs give a decent profit, the space is limited and they are needed for several other purposes. Maybe it would be different, if I used a flat map and spammed it with foresters. It could be worth a try; flat map, only forest-connected production, no farming, no export of "advanced" products. Perhaps it will be my next game. I guess autotrading could work in a case like that. Could be an interesting experiment.
Now, as I speak about trade, I will tell you
@Tom Sawyer, I find there are too many export merchants and too few, who sell food. It works, as it is, I get enough food (wheat) but I have to buy a lot each time one arrives, because, it can take years until next time. It would be more convenient, if the food merchant arrived more often. The "exporter" could bring more coins each time to compensate, if he was more rare.
QuoteIt's a quest for Nordic adventurers: Go to the woods and find out whats happened with onions and roots. :)
I suppose the reindeer ate them! ;) No, again, you are so right
@Tom Sawyer! ::) If I go into the woods, I collect berries and/or mushrooms, never roots or onions. I don't even know, if there are any eatable in our forests at all. There's ramson (Bärlauch in German) but here you use the leaves, I think it has small "onions" as root, but I have never picked any. Other roots I've heard of are rather to use by a herbalist for healing, than as food.
Now to the game
First picture
As i stopped the game the day before yesterday, I had a really bad harvest, the summer was cold. The first year yesterday wasn't a bit better. Look at the fields and the temperature! It just turned august, the temperature is 6 C. It never went above 8, the whole summer! These two bad summers in a row did hurt, the stores went down, but maybe it didn't hurt enough! Should it be possible to manage two real bad harvests in a row, without any starvation, playing with the worse possible settings?
Second pictureHere's an explanation to the "lost stars". I've opened the menus of all houses with "young" (or rather unmarried) adults. 10 bachelors and 1 young women. She has something to choose among! ;D
Third pictureI'm expanding towards the "crayfish party" ! ;D I'm beginning to think it could be possible to get enough surplus, to make some booze! :) As soon as I've built some houses for the workers, there will be a second "forest node" down south east.
Again I've cut in some graphs. You can see that the food stores went down to about 5000 after the 2 bad harvests. The two following summers where "warm" with good harvest, the food merchant also payed his visit. After the many deaths in a short time the population has started to grow again, slow but constant, just passing 100 inhabitants.
Fourth picture. Here, together with the old parts of the settlement, you can see the inventory and what I store in the port. The trademenu doesn't look like that. I cut in the left part, to show you everything I sell. Before I went to bed yesterday, I made a check on the production economy. I will take away the iron bloom from the ports. It's no good economy to sell. I must have made a miscalculation, as I looked into it briefly at the beginning.
Quote from: Nilla on October 12, 2016, 05:12:30 AM
I suppose the reindeer ate them! ;)
This answer is wrong. The quest has not been completed. You do not get the reward. Maybe another adventurer has more luck. ;D
Hm! >:(
Since I've bin working all my professional life as an environmental engineer, I ought to have suggested something more obvious, than blaming the innocent beasts! Sorry! :-[ I guess I missed my chance, it's up to someone else to find the Right answer! ;D
The reindeer are eating the onions and roots... my guess.
No, that was already Nilla's guess and to guess is not the quest.^^ Read the description carefully:
"Go to the woods and find out, what happened with onions and roots." Quest reward: 100 XP and the new skill "Experienced Gatherers" (+10% yield of wild fruits).
Of course, the woods of the North Beta 4.0 are meant. And as far as I remember the RPG's I played, the quest is still available after a failure... But only the first one gets the reward. :)
I went into the Nordic wood with some weird thoughts about a disturbed ecosystem; heavily used by unbalanced, quite monocultured forestry and too high harvesting of delicate plants. But what did I find? We were right the whole time; The reindeer ate them! Here's prove! ;D
(I'll write more about the game later this afternoon)
Here's about the game. I have started to look on the production numbers and profit of the production sites. It didn't make much sense earlier, because I seldom had a constant production a whole year. I still micromanage between summer (focus on farming) and the rest of the year, but now I don't move all professions.
I have made an estimation of the yearly production value of each profession. If we think this way: Say the people eat about 25 from each food category every year. It's 25*5 (I have to buy wheat), 25*4 (apples)+ 25*2 (potatoes)+ 25*1(fish) = 300. They also need some firewood, tools, clothing, herbs.... say another 100. That means about 400 is "self supporting".
I looked at the yearly production and multiplied it with the difference between the value you get when you sell the product and the production costs, also using the values from selling.
I made 6 categories of professions depending on the yearly profit in trade value. There might be the one or another miscalculation and of cause, the variation between years, locations, amount of close stored raw material, size of fields, orchards, pastures..... could be big. This is some kind of average, based on my buildings and how they are located:
A. Less than he need himself;< 400
B. A small profit; 400-800
C. A decent profit; 800-1600
D. A good profit; 1600-2500
E. A very good profit 2500-4000
F. An overpovered profit >4000
A - smelter
B - herbalist, miner, fisher, woodcutter, vegetable farmer
C - forester, gatherer, herdsman (smaller pasture), fruit farmer, charcoaler, blacksmith (iron)
D - herdsman (larger pasture), tailor (woolcoats)
E - herdsman (reindeer, 1 in the hut), tailor (Nordic coat), blacksmith (steel, iron tools)
F - blacksmith (steel tools)
I like, that the profit increases if the products get more complicated. It should give a good profit to sell steel tools, more than iron tools, or steel, that gives a higher profit than iron. But I think, that more than 10 times of what the blacksmith need himself, is a bit too much. (Although we are far away from the vanilla chopper who makes ~20 time )
First picture
Crayfishparty?! Soon, soon! :)
Normally this quite inaccessible area down in southwest would have bin the last to develop. But what real Nordic woman can resist the opportunity to have a "kräftskiva"? At least not me! ::) ;D
Second picture
Here's another proof, that the guilty of the disappearing roots and onions are the reindeer! They dig out the freshly planted potatoes, too! No wonder that the harvest sometimes turns out bad! >:( ::)
The graph shows that the population grows fast now. I hope not too fast.
Good and interesting statistics, will have to make notes. Reindeer get hungry too. Good investigating. Too bad no sugar snap peas. Years ago when my garden was bigger, I planted sugar snap peas for the deer and they ate those and left the rest of the garden alone. They even left some peas for us. Reward, we always got to see the fawns, adorable.
Remeber @Abondoned, the statistics only apply to the North. The numbers are totally different with vanilla trade and production, not to talk about all other mods.
In Nilla's game, reindeer is always hungry. They even eat onions. ;)
Your bridge is funny. If I look at these rocks, probably the one and only way to reach the new land and the holy crayfish.^^
I have also calculated with 300 to feed a citizen via import and had in mind that a worker has to feed 1.5 kids and all unproductive professions like teachers, traders and so on. It is only relevant in harsh climate but a good measurement. I'm satisfied with your result. I will slightly reduce the productivity of steel tools. The bloomery (smelter) should not make a profit. I don't want to make the iron bloom to a trade good. Would be weird. It is only an intermediate product of the iron processing. The blacksmith makes the product and the profit for both. The reindeer herder is too lucrative but maybe not representative in this list and not if 2 herders are working in a cabin. And if I reduce venison, reindeer could be too weak by area in relation to sheep. Would you change any special value, except of steel tool production?
I have changed the export merchants in the way we talked about. They will pay the full price for tools, warm clothes and alcohol. The three manufactured products. So it makes sense to trade with these merchants for money. Maybe logs and some other things too. Then you can play both strategies. Simple barter trading without a coin or active trading by using money for a better result. Of course it will change the values of your list ...
Thanks for your investigation, it's very useful... :)
This bridge wasn't quite the only option, but the best. There could have been another, even longer bridge a bit north or a shorter bridge over the river more south, combined with a very long tunnel. Both would have been more expensive, but it was not the important thing; both would have made the paths longer for most people. It's bad enough as it is.
I've been thinking a little bit more about the profit of steeltools. Maybe it's not that high anyway. If we count differently; to produce 100 steel tools you need the work of about 1½ miner, ½ forester, 1/4 woodchopper, 1 charcoaler, ½ smelter and 1 1/4 blacksmith; about 5 person. Together they produce a value of 6600 or 1350 each. I wouldn't primary change the production numbers. I find them quite alright. Maybe put the price down a little, especially in combination with the possibility to get an even higher price, if you use coins. Maybe also look into the other products of the blacksmith, so that the profit of iron tools and steel aren't closing in on steel tools. We must also remember, that I based my calculation on good located production sites, in times as there were plenty of every raw material close (a yearly production of 250). I have seen a little higher but more often lower.
I find the high profit of the hunter/herdsman quite alright. The number of these profitable workers are very limited. You will never be able to support a larger settlement from reindeer. The first years were really tough and than it's good to have something reliable (venison) to sell. You can also export logs at the beginning, but you need them for so many other things as well. Sometimes you have plenty, sometimes just a few to spare. To feed the population, you can fish and give them some other cheap protein.
First pictureThe new area under development.
The foodgraph is very "up and down". Two reasons; there are few foodmerchants, so I have to buy a lot of wheat each time one arrives and sometimes the harvest is really bad. Mostly due to a cold summer. But it has also happened, that I was so busy planning, what to build next, that I forgot to start the harvest in time (It happened last year; too busy planning the inn. You can see it at the inventory on the second picture; not much potatoes and apples)
In a harsh climate, you would hardly get anything out of your fields and orchards, if you didn't start the the harvest manually. Of cause, this is a disadvantage, if you want to build a big settlement on harsh with a lot of farming. A lot of manual work! But why not! Like you said in that other thread
@Tom Sawyer ; no "build and forget". No way! :)
Second pictureI'm not quite there, yet but soon! After this harvest, I will start to build the inn, it's already planned, just next to the school. ;D I never build much in summer. The builders are needed as farmers. The schnapps production has started and I have fished some crayfish.
The crayfish spot disappears after a short time. I don't know, what I feel about it. First I was annoyed. Another thing to micromanage, if you want to have a lot of crayfish (could be profitable to sell). But on the hand, in life crayfish from a small stream, never was an important part of any economy. As far as I know, they are only fished a short period in late summer/early autumn. I even think, that they are not good usable, if you try to fish them earlier. I can remember, as I was a child, we use to dive for them in a small lake and our mothers didn't like it. First it was illegal and second, they also had too soft shells and couldn't really be used. You know; if poaching, than at least something useful. ;)
I hope there will be a huge crayfishparty tonight! I'm really curious what
@Tom Sawyer has figured out!
I hope you will not be disappointed. It's not a big deal. I would give you a pompous popup video when a party starts. But that does not work. ;D
No, it wasn't disappointing. In fact I didn't expect all too much. I have a long experience of this game and even if I don't do any mods myself, I've got a pretty good idea about the possibilities.
I built the inn, had my schnapps and my crayfish; my crayfishparty and see what happend. A small surprise! Cheers! :)
The inn looks fantastic, with and without the extention (it looks like it works like a boarding house, I have no intentions to take any nomads, but it might be used, if there's a fire). Of cause it would look even better, if there wasn't so many other buildings around it, but that's up to the "city builders" to prove. At least there was enough room for some garden furniture. (You know a crayfish party has to be held outside).
Now the hard question: To what use is all this; booze, inns, "cheers"? Schnapps and beer isn't possible to sell, no merchant wants it, "cheers" is worth 1 , so no good business. It looks like the inn works as that part of the vanilla brewery, where people come to idle, get their alcoholic beverage (not schnapps or beer but "cheers") and that's it. I don't suppose, it has any real impact on happiness or anything else. A pity!
So, sorry, after testing; inn and brewery are closed. :( :'(
I haven't decided yet, if I want to go on with this game for much longer. I have promised to test the autotrade, and I will. After that; I don't know. It works fine. I think, I could fill the map with this mixture of farming and trade, without bigger problems. Do you want anything else to be hardtested in this game,
@Tom Sawyer ?
I have noticed one small bug, or I don't really know, what it was. I have started a small tool production center in the new part of the settlement. I want to give the warehouse a try. The first bloomery I built here, didn't work. The smelter did a lot of other things, mostly idling. He just never went into his shop. The other bloomeries all work fine. The difference to this was, that it had buildings on 3 sides. The bloomery has no street access built in. Did I maybe close the front side? It looks like, there is a front side, where the smelter always stands, but is it always the same side? In that case, it would probably be better to add a road to the building. The coalburner is the same, but I have never noticed this kind of problem there. I thought I made a screenshot of this bugged building but obviously, I forgot.
First pictureCheers!
Second picture"Cheers" seems to attract a lot of people (even my "beloved" reindeer ;D ). It was gone in no time.
"Darling, where is my liquor bottle?"
"The reindeer drank it."
::)
Third pictureHere we can see a disadvantage in how I build; not planning all to much in advance. I didn't really plan this toolcenter and all the houses needed for its workers. You can see, that I have problems with farming in this area. New fields could always be a bit difficult, new areas with a lot of builders as well, so at first I didn't care all to much about the bad harvest. After a while though, I understood, that something must be wrong. And sure it was. I looked at the farmers, who should plant and harvest their fields. They were running all over the place, doing other things. First I didn't really understood why, than I noticed, that for all those houses, there are only 2 small village shops and they were empty on food most of the time. The farmers were often far away collecting food for their homes.
I should have built a normal market place for all those houses, but now it's too late, so I temporarily put 4 vendors in each shop, I'm, building a third one in the area, I will start the "sleeping potato fields" next year to produce more food local and build a trading port, to get wheat deliveries close. I think it could solve the problem.
I just tested the bloomery. If the access to the front side is locked, they do not produce. The 4 iron bloom on each was produced just at the beginning, as the other plant wasn't built. After that no visit from a smelter.
Oh, a hard question ... and I need a good answer. ??? ;D
You are right, it is a pity. Consuming alcohol does not affect the game (except of destroying a lot of resources in a short time and to spawn an idling point) and we can't solve this issue. If I could change it, it would work like herbs for health. Of course, having a fun game goal is also a purpose and you had some fun with it and a game motivation to reach the new land with this crayfish-stream far away. The only serious purpose of alcohol is trading. And thats why I have separated the consumption of alcohol from the production. Now you have the control what happens with this resource. They will not drink it if you don't want.
@kid1293 and me have found this way while making the Tequila mod and it makes sense to me. Now you have three sorts of alcohol with different ingredients and trade values including a further processed product to get a higher price. It's a third production chain beside of toolmaking and tailoring, without the feeling to waste something while these drunken people destroy the half of your barrels until it is stored in the trading post. The tavern got a serious function with the boarding house upstairs. And maybe we find another useful job for the barkeeper in the time between the fun events.
Thanks for the hint to this bloomery bug. I think more space or a road in front will solve it.
To trade alcohol; it doesn´t work. No merchant wants it! :(
That's a bug. My fault. These nasty little merchants... always make trouble.^^
Bugs in the alcohol?
Worms I've heard of. ;)
NILLA u have a tavern and a brewery i tak it??? so u are making alcohol in the brewery?? and where is the inn or boarding quarters,above the brewery??? or am i confused??? i ask because there are mods where the ale or cider is made in the tavern-style building. u are right too,i think that crayfish tavern should have some spaces with picnic tables already with the mod.mayb a good time for a "f" variant.
TOM u better watch out.next Nilla will want ppl in bikins and chairs for a beach party too.lol
I'll try to explain
@brads3.
In this Nordic mod you have a brewery, that looks exactly like the vanilla brewery. It makes schnapps from potatoes, beer from wheat and liqueur from blueberries and schnapps, but it doesn't work like a vanilla brewery. People don't get there to drink. It just produces.
They go to the inn and drink and eat their crayfish, if you choose the crayfishparty. You can also choose just drinking. When the barkeeper brought his stuff into the inn, something
@Tom Sayer calls "cheers" is produced, that works like ale in the vanilla version; people idle in/at the inn and one "cheers" disappears.
You can build a second floor to the inn and it works like a boarding house.
Beach party? Hmm..... I think the crayfish party is enough for me. I'm an old woman, can't endure too much party. ;)
And who knows,
@kid1293, bugs in liquor could taste better than worms in liqour. I've never tried any of them. :o ;D
Quote from: Nilla on October 15, 2016, 01:41:19 PM
bugs in liquor could taste better than worms in liqour. I've never tried any of them. :o ;D
Me neither. My whisky is old enough. ;D
thank you Nilla,that was a good explanation. i like the nordic buildings Kid has made for us that dont play THE NORTH. too many differences so we cant play both CC and THE NORTH together. it is nice to have the variety of different buildin g styles thou.
I've been thinking of one thing about happines. The only "building" that really makes sad people happier is a graveyard. Have any of you modders studied, if the graveyard is somehow different, than the other happiness buildings in the codes? Or is this defined in the code of the person, that as far as I've understood, is not accessable?
I have tested the autotrading. As i said, I don't really need autotrading for my 3 ports and it also has other limits. I buy more or less all rooftiles and some of the bricks, that are brought, but I don't need more than that, so no need to order and pay the higher prize. But I can't autotrade for these materials. I don't need any stones, that would be delivered as well. Even if I ordered roof tiles and bricks, I couldn't autotrade. I need much more roof tiles than bricks. The merchants bring about the same amount, so I would get too much bricks and maybe not enough roof tiles, if I autotraded . The same thing with the merchant who bring materials. I use to buy his iron ore, iron bloom and wool, without ordering, but I don't want any other of the materials, that are put together as resource or textile.
In this test I buy grain and coin. I've found one little bug; You have to take away daler as possible payment to the export merchant. It seems like the autotrade prefers daler as payment, even if you so to say "buy" daler. First I was puzzled, after the export merchant had made his trade. He only had a few dalers left, so some business must have been done, but all my goods still seemed to be in the port. Soon I realized, that I've "bought" my 200 dalers and payed with 200 dalers. Excellent trade! :-\ :o
I think 50 years is enough for this test. The update of the Nordic mod is nice. The start was difficult, but after I established farming and trade with tools and clothing, it works just fine. Maybe even too good. The new trade values work, at least the way I use trade; mainly to buy wheat, bricks and roof tiles. I would like to test, if it could work also without any farming.
What are your plans for updates
@Tom Sawyer? Maybe it would be a good idea to make the small changes, we have discussed for a second beta version. You could also put this as an "official new version". It works fine. But maybe the trade ought to be tested a little bit more. I think, it's a delicate thing to set trade values. I like, if it's possible to support a settlement mainly with trade, but it shouldn't be too easy.
PictureIf I wanted to go on with this game, I could expand to the north. I've started to prepare the area: Build a tunnel, clear some land, build a store, a house for the workers in this area, plant some orchards. This would be a farming area. With the Nordic mod it takes time for the orchards to grow and this is Banished; you always have to be ahead of the development. In some years, when this area really starts to work, the apples are ready to harvest. This is the kind of planning I do.
If you look at the population graph, you can see it's "broken" two years ago. If I saw a graph like that by someone else, I would say, epidemic. And yes, some kind of epidemic it was here, too, but in accidents. That year there were 6 accidental deaths! 4 smoking lungs (40 % of my charcoaler, extremely dangerous job!), one falling tree and one poisonous berries but no mining accident! ??? I had a similar epidemic of childbirth deaths early in the game.
There were a couple of good harvest in a row, so the food stores are well filled; a lot of potatoes. The food merchants also arrived regular.
Yes, auto trading for bricks or other special materials does not make sense. I think the main use of it is to get food, especially grain. And to export stuff. The export merchant also takes money but actually it is just a "no trade". If they prefer money it is not good. I will test it without wanted money. This would mean, that pennies are not available as change. Not easy to deal with the trading system.
The job of the charcoal burners is not healthy, as I said...^^. Maybe too much. It's the same chance of death like the stonecutters. I will reduce it to the value of miners.
I think you've tested everything that was new in this version. You found some nasty bugs and important knowledge for balancing. And of course it was very nice to follow your story. The planned changes and maybe to be tested in a Beta 4.1 are: Brickyard and clay pits, export merchants with different demands, balanced trade values and of course the fixed bug for alcohol export. Another change is to store bulk goods like clay, coal and ores on piles. I made a model and it looks good. The valuable and further processed scattered resources. My idea was to use the sheds as small storage for materials and the warehouse for a big one. Or I make a new model. What do you mean? Do we need the warehouse with market function or not because it does not really work. I'm undecided because I think the idea of providing raw materials by vendors was not bad. And another question, where to store the money? An idea is to store it also in the town hall (only money but with a high limit). The town hall could have more functions. And I think money should not be stored in barns. Changes of storage locations have a big impact and should be done wisely...
The claypits are done in two sizes but the brickyard is still under construction. If you wait a few days, you can test it in a bundle. Or I make the small changes for a new map. :)
I said it before; don't bother too much about making the autotrade perfect. I've said it before: In a normal Nordic game, it doesn't have any real importance. You will never need to spam the river with trading ports and you will always export various goods. Maybe to buy food, but I would even say, that it wouldn't work very well with other food categories than grain; where all (=both) grain cost the same. If you autotrade vegetables without orders, you might not want to buy expensive peppar and so on. And if the pennies are not available in an autotrading system, doesn't matter much. Computers normally can count and get 3500 together from merchandise worth 21/4/6/9/66. The human brain might have some problems, though. ;)
I don't really mind, that charcoalburner is a dangerous profession, but maybe it shouldn't be more dangerous than mining, so the same probability of accidental death sounds good to me.
To the warehouse. I forgot to tell my experience of the changed model. It worked much better than the first version. There were all kind of materials there all the time I looked. But I produced everything close, so I guess a big barn without vendor/s, would have worked as well. I don't know, if there's an advantage to have vendors to "drag" materials together or not. I'm not even sure, that all these specialized storages, that different mods offer, stockpiles, barns and markets just for one special thing, really improve the game. Of cause, you get a better production from a woodcutter with one specialized stockpile for logs on one side and one for firewood on the other side, not one piece of stone blocking the space. But I don't mean it's an improvement. If specialized stores, please not too specialized.
I think you could keep the vendors in the warehouse. I don't think it makes much difference. You can use some, if you think you need them, otherwise use it as a big barn for materials. Normally you locate production sites, that belong together close anyhow. And combine this with smaller sheds, that don't hold all too much goods, could work good enough.
One problem, if you decide to store the money in a place like the townhall, is that there's only one for a whole big map. It could be a long way for the traders to walk, to get/get rid of some. But you are right, storing money in barns is a bit weird. And a town hall is often build at the beginning of a game=on a central place. Other alternatives, like stores and markets are no good. I don't like "useless" coins taking space away from other goods here, or that their vendors are busy, carrying them around. Maybe one central storage; town hall is the best alternative.
I can wait for an upgrade, no hurry. Just tell when you think you have something to test. I'm your testpilot!
From what i have seen the vendors help gather materials faster than laborers. they have their carts and carry more. when my pile locations are full and i have storage buildings that aren't, the game will tell me my storage capacity for logs and stone is full. in which case the laborers leave piles all over where they are clearing land. thats when i like to use a vendor to clear those piles and fill wharehouse barns. i too use barns and markets for storage with a "help yourself" way of running towns. But am learning the vendors keep goods moving which does help efficiency of everyone else. the only problem with that is if u have a shortage,materials or food will b far away not in a local barn.
one game long time ago, i had a huge map with a big lake in the middle. my mine and production was in the far northwest corner with a fort town to the southeast of the lake and i was trying to expand a farm town farther south. i placed a market witha vendor to stock it with the mine village. that 1 little old vendor would supply my entire map way outside his circle.he was super busy and super fast. it was about the 1st time i used a vendor so i assumed a vendor was not locked to a circle and therefore on any map w1 vendor would act like this 1 and supply all my markets and the entire map. not sure what caused that vendor to work that way. some glitch to mod order?? a particular mod that since may have been updated??? i havent seen a vendor work as hard since. i sure do miss him.
Tom i too like the idea of more specific wharehouses.though i dont play THE NORTH i do play with the nordic buildings. the wharehouse u made seems to b low on its capacity. is it by volume count or by weight??? the idea many of piles of goods scattered all over doesnt look as nice for our towns. placing a shed near a production building doesnt work completely. the workers will drop goods into it instead of walking across the road and put them in the food market,etc. you cant control what gets put in and the shed will fill b filled with items you dont want or need there. thats why i like the wharehouse. it complements my industrial barn. CC has a set of specific sheds (wood,stone,iron,materials) but they are tied to 1 of CC's production chains. u have to already have a larger production town established because u need more than wood,stone,and iron to even build the sheds. as Nilla has said,it is nice to have a small shed to place near a blacksmith or tailor if it would not take food goods.
dont take it as me complaining. i am grateful for the work many modders have done. i can remember when i started to play the game we had to make piles everywhere. i didnt have the mod for an industrial barn to store stone. hell i didnt have a dairy or mill and bakery even. so many things seem to b missing that is how we find mod sites.:) each mod package brings something different that helps the game work and look better. it wuld b plain looking after a while if all the buildings looked the same. sometimes thou its a whole mod pack for 1 or 2 buildings and several that u dont use. it is a give n take,as everyones styles are not the same.
The capacity of the warehouse is 10,000. About 250 per tile. The same as stockpiles. Volume or weight is not important. Better to think it as "used capacity". In the rsc-files it is called"weight" but actually the weight has no influence on the capacity of a stockpile. Except to a weight that breaks the earth and drops the material into hell.^^
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 15, 2016, 06:05:51 AM
... maybe we find another useful job for the barkeeper in the time between the fun events.
Just an idea: The barkeeper or better to say the bartender (?) could make the blueberry liqueur. It's just the mixing of schnapps and berries. Not really the job of a brewer. So he would have a useful job (processing alcohol) and a serious reason to build the new tavern. A side effect is that we don't need to switch the product in the brewery between schnapps and liqueur.
Why not,
@Tom Sawyer ? But it would still be a small thing. In my last game, I didn't make any blueberry liqueur at all. If you look at one of my schreenshots, where I show my inventory, it's quite obvious why. There were never much of it. 1000 blueberries split all over the place, could never give a good production. Of cause, in another game with more forestry, it could look different.
But I guess you still have to switch between what he does; making a crayfishparty, serving beer and schnapps, making and serving blueberry liqueur.
A small thing with a high profit. And with the skill (http://www.banishedventures.com/download/skillexperiencedgatherers) it could be a really interesting business. ;)
To switch to a party or to serve some booze for fun and then back to make something useful is not a problem. Better than to switch from making schnapps to process it with berries and back to make new stuff (annoying).
I made a test with the warehouse. As you said, it makes sense to use it in two different ways. As a simple storage location for laborers and as a "managed" warehouse with vendors. You can switch the function by enable/disable the work button. I have remove the status icon while the work is disabled for a better look. The only thing is that the laborers also use the flag limits and will not use the entire capacity.
I don't understand a thing of your quest, honestly. :-[ Of cause, I can see the monocultured forest and I guess that the onions and roots have some symbiotic life with the birches, but I really have no idea, how you could get them back in a once disturbed ecosystem. Maybe if you let the foresters rest for a long time or of cause right from the beginning; use the forest for gatherers without any foresters. In any case, it will be useless; unless you let very diligent hunters extinguish the reindeer, they will eat them anyway. :-\ ::)
Anyhow this brought something good/bad or whatever: I started the game again to look once more into the forest and I found something, that ought to be investigated a bit more. I had a crash. There was a fire. Two homeless families wanted to move upstairs of the inn. As I opened the menu, the first couple; two young people had moved in but the game crashed as soon as the other family (i think there were 4 homeless people) wanted to move in. I have tried to reproduce this by fake demolish houses, no crash so far.
I had the same crash now, the second time I tried to reproduce it. I demolished 3 houses with 3 children each. Again the first couple moved in; it was one of the adult children who used to opportunity to take a spouse, than again a crash. So, there must be something wrong with the apartments. Maybe there are too few lines in the menu?
Edit: Actually, I´m sure, it is too few lines at the menu, only 9. If more than 9 people want to move in, the game crashes. 3 small families work fine, so does one big family but not 3 larger families. With the Nordic houses, worst case would be 3*6 =18 lines. I guess, it would seldom happen, but I would make it that big anyway. Crashes are no fun.
I shouldn't have stopped testing. I discovered one more thing, now as I tried to reproduce that bug. Opposite to the vanilla mine, there is no sign of how much ore is left your version. That's the reason, I thought it was "eternal". I just noticed it wasn't. I don't mind, but I think it should have a sign, where it's shown, how much is left. I think it's quite important to know.
Quote from: Nilla on October 17, 2016, 06:34:25 AM
I can see the monocultured forest and I guess that the onions and roots have some symbiotic life with the birches ...
Congratulation! You have solved this quest. You get 100 XP and the new skill...
(http://www.banishedventures.com/downloads/icons/SkillExperiencedGatherers.png) (http://www.banishedventures.com/download/skillexperiencedgatherers) |
Experienced Gatherers (http://www.banishedventures.com/download/skillexperiencedgatherers) (unlocked by Nilla, Password: birch) ;D ;) |
The birches grow on boggy ground, as you may have noticed. But they also spread out and in the birch wood grow onions and roots, additional to berries and mushrooms. In the spruce forest these wild fruits do not grow. As you said, it is an effect of intensive forestry and monoculture. The birches would come back if the foresters did not cut them. It is also possible to influence the forest development with manual logging and to breed a birch forest with richer ground vegetation. But this is not a real option for a growing economy. It was just a small experiment to add some forest dynamics. There are some other small things. Deadwood spawns mushrooms, for example. But you will not really notice this.
-
I had no crash while testing the apartments but as you said there must be something wrong with the UI... And this progress element of the mine, we can add. Probably it's better to know the remaining ores and coal... Thank you for these hints!
Alright, I thought all the time, that we had to find a way to get those onions and roots, and OK, somehow it is, if you know that they only grow together with the birches. :)