As some of you know I have studied farming in Banished pretty seriously. One thing I have learned is that, given nearby housing and storage, and a crop that performs well like beans or wheat, a single farmer can successfully manage a farm significantly larger than the conventional 120-tiles.
The image shows an experiment I just did to illustrate the point.
The one thing that is a little bit different is the town is 0% educated. Uneducated farmers get 5 food/tile instead of the 7 food/tile that educated farmers get. A 120-tile uneducated farm will normally get 600 food with a 100% yield (educated gets 840).
In the image you can see I have created 12 farms @ 11x15 (165-tile). It should be pretty obvious which ones they are. I planted a mix of beans and wheat. Every one of the farms but one got a maximum harvest (165*5=825; how they all got 840 is a mystery to me).
Anyway, this can be very useful in the early game, when you have plenty of space but are constrained by the number of workers you can spare for farming.
I should have mentioned that had these farmers been educated the yield would have been 1155 per farm, with a single farmer, compared with the conventional 840.
Good to know, that's for info. :)
i tried to do a chart for myself once that listed buildings by building materials and then sizes.also wanted to do production buildings by outputs like the many fishing docks. gave up after a few days. the mintue we upload a new mod would change the list.plus i have found the mod order does affect outputs more than expected.
Interesting
@irrelevant. Now you can try to figure out the optimal field size for different crops in different nordic climates with and without micromanaged harvest season. ;D
Now doing a ten-year test with 15X15 farms using each of the eight vanilla crops to determine the maximum practical farm size for each. That'll take a couple of days. ;)
Farming is very complex and interesting, I'm seeing. Rain and sun have a huge impact. There is no way to compensate for these factors.
How do rain and sun affect crops? I did not know that.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 24, 2017, 02:14:37 AM
How do rain and sun affect crops? I did not know that.
Crops pretty much stop growing when it is raining. When the rain stops and the sun comes back out, there is a growth spurt that lasts for a bit, increasing the yield by maybe 10-15% fairly quickly, depending on the temperature (needs to be within the crop's growth range). Then growth slows until the cycle repeats. Not sure what happens if it doesn't rain.
It may also be that temps closer to the center of that crop's growth range will produce faster growth.
This is based on observing my eight new 15X15 fields, each growing one of the eight vanilla crops, for five years (so far). I do not consider this an exhaustive study, but the observations have been consistent so far.
interesting info.sure that could help modders.any more tidbits like that?
That is very interesting. I had 2 towns that it seemed to me that it rained longer and more often than others, I hope I made a note of those towns to see if I had problems with producing enough food. Thanks for info. :)
Finished the ten-year test. The results are interesting. As this is an uneducated town, I'll give the results in terms of tiles rather than quantities of food.
avg max min
bean 197 225 87
squash 173 210 85
corn 173 225 70
cabbage 159 215 74
wheat 156 207 43
pepper 154 203 83
pumpkin 141 201 66
potato 117 161 44
You can see that generally the results show that for most crops a single farmer can reliably work a farm much larger than the 120 tiles that convention leads us to use. Keep in mind that the layout is very important, you can see that housing and storage are adjacent to every field. Also, one factor that I had not considered before, there is a market immediately at hand. This is also important, as I discovered that my farmers had an annoying tendency to gather resources for their homes frequently during planting and harvest. The proximity of the market meant that they performed this time-wasting chore as efficiently as could be done.
Another thing I had never fully considered before is the function of farmers as laborers in winter. Now I had thought I was avoiding conflicts here by never sending laborers out to gather resources during late winter. What I had failed to remember is that laborers also collect and store the output of smiths, tailors, choppers, herdsmen, foresters, hunters, and gatherers. More than once I noticed that Early Spring had turned to Spring, and one of my fields was sitting there empty with planting not even begun. This was due to the fact that the farmer had picked up three sticks of firewood from a woodcutter on the other side of the map, and was taking it to storage. If I had hair I would have been tearing it out. This is the main reason for using two farmers on all fields; if one is being stupid, there is another to serve as backup.
I do not recommend using large farms with a single farmer, as I have done here, in a mature town. But in a town in its early years, where labor is the main constraint and there is plenty of space, I would not hesitate to make one or two very large farms, staffed with a single farmer, particularly if I had one of the more reliable crops. The possible payoff is very large indeed.
so yes it can be good and super productive for 1 farmer for food but also it is very random
if happends at autumn the farmer need to go gather food for his house / or firewood and also he need to go back to eat.... he lost half of the annual food for the crop.
and if the game did made his job bad to give the crop to the nearest house ... the guy will lose more time to go back and forth
but overall , if you are calculating the median number of food overall.... it will still more producing per worker than the default number of workers assigned.
Here's a quick start I did for fun. I built a 13X12 wheat farm and a 15X14 bean farm first thing. One farmer on each. Both farms produced over 1000 food. Now to build a gatherer's hut to get berries for a complete diet.
@RedKetchup Yes, it's random, but this is less of a factor at the start. Everything is right there, so if they go to get warm or to eat, they'll be right back to work in very short order.
Next year both the farms maxxed out (1400 beans!). Unfortunately you can't see the wheat yield cause the farmer picked up a deer kill before he started planting harvesting. But he got a full harvest, which on a 13X12 is 1092. :)
Now I'm going to have to build another barn. ;D
edit: I forgot to add, I manually started the harvest on both farms at 75%.
Last one. Year 3. Another huge harvest. Three years' worth of food in storage. Time for a smith, a tailor, a market, and a TP. If I was going to continue with this town, I'd knock down the farms and build the market where the wheat field is. Smith across the street near the stockpile.
are you only playing maps that provide beans ? ^^
hey at some point, can you load NMT30Series: Crop and try to figurate the temps i should put for each new crops i added ?
min temp, max temps, range temp...
(a sheet similar you provided me for Irrelevant's tweaking crop mod) ?
Quote from: RedKetchup on August 25, 2017, 08:51:35 PM
are you only playing maps that provide beans ? ^^
hey at some point, can you load NMT30Series: Crop and try to figurate the temps i should put for each new crops i added ?
min temp, max temps, range temp...
(a sheet similar you provided me for Irrelevant's tweaking crop mod) ?
Hey, the seed gave me beans, I grow beans ;)
I'll be glad to have a look at it. Not going to be able to do it this weekend though, guests in from out of town. ::)
Well, okay, one more year.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 23, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
Interesting @irrelevant. Now you can try to figure out the optimal field size for different crops in different nordic climates with and without micromanaged harvest season. ;D
@Tom Sawyer Uhhhh, no. ;D
Do you think it makes a difference in either the output or the amount of land cultivatable if the farm is set to laborer pickup rather than farmer pickup?
I think it can make a difference depending on the situation.
Just as the farmers the laborers go out to eat too so there is no difference.
It depends where the houses and storage barns are located. The closer to the farm fields the better as the walk to get something to eat is not much.
But if the house where the laborer lives is far away and the farmer lives close by maybe even the farmer is faster then the laborer.
The game assigns automatic every so often the houses/workers ratio and change the workers to other jobs which are closer by.
For laborers the game have a bit a harder time because mostly laborers are all over the place.
We send them south/west/north/and east to clear out area's.
As a farmer is mostly live close by the farm fields the game will mostly leave it like that.
I think wether the laborers come to pick it up immediately doesn't matter because once the food is harvested it can remain in the field over winter and not spoil.
Was just typing that but you beat me to it. :)
@kid1293 I'll type slower next time... 8)
Quote from: The Pilgrim on August 26, 2017, 06:27:15 AMDo you think it makes a difference in either the output or the amount of land cultivatable if the farm is set to laborer pickup rather than farmer pickup?
Yes, that makes a huge difference... all the farmer has to do is cut the crop, without the tedious travels to put it in storage.
And once the crop is in a basket, it can stay out even in cold weather, until a laborer picks it up.
*
Some deem the laborer pickup a "cheat"... but which farmer is all alone to bring in the harvest? That never made much sense to me, so I use this mod all the time. :)
Bah, seems everybody types faster than I do... LOL
Quote from: RedKetchup on August 25, 2017, 08:51:35 PM
are you only playing maps that provide beans ? ^^
hey at some point, can you load NMT30Series: Crop and try to figurate the temps i should put for each new crops i added ?
min temp, max temps, range temp...
(a sheet similar you provided me for Irrelevant's tweaking crop mod) ?
@RedKetchup Hey, I just wanted to let you know I'm working on this. I'm using my old NMT town Needmore, but it is going to take some time to acquire all of the seeds. Have to keep the town running too, you know ;)
Could you let me have the crop parameters so I know what to expect from them? Temp, Range, Months?
sure ... gimmme 30mins
crop name : temp / range / month
Barley : 65.0 / 65.0 / 2 (should be original numbers from [CC])
Broccoli: 65.0 / 65.0 / 2
Carrot : 65.0 / 65.0 / 2
Cucumber: 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Kale : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Lettuce: 65.0 / 25.0 / 2 (should be original numbers from SRS)
Pea : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Radish : 70.0 / 25.0 / 3
Sorghum: 65.0 / 65.0 / 2 (should be original numbers from [CC])
Spinach : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Strawberry:65.0 / 65.0 / 1
Tomato : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Turnip : 65.0 / 65.0 / 2
Watermelon:85.0 / 45.0 / 2.5 (should be original numbers from [CC])
i kinda took a file.rsc and i copied and i renamed the file and renamed the names inside; i didnt put alot of care, out of strawberry. since it is a spring/early summer fruit i did put 1 month for the strawberry. i have no idea what should grow fast, grow late, temperatures... etc
@RedKetchup Thanks, mon ami! :)
@RedKetchup I think my sorghum field grew nothing but shadows! ;D
Lots of them, though. One farmer got 184 tiles.
Tomato farmer got 140, and radish farmer got 116. Your radishes grow only between 59F and 83F. Very narrow range, and 3 months to maturity. The narrow range is okay, but I think the temp should be more like 55 rather than 70, and two months instead of three.
I bought barley seeds and lettuce seeds, but neither one shows up at the crop fields as available to plant.
i want you to find all the temp/range/months numbers that i should put at every crop
i dont have any botanical knowleadge. please find the number they should have.
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=353.0 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=353.0)
Quote from: irrelevant on August 29, 2017, 05:29:25 PM
@RedKetchup I think my sorghum field grew nothing but shadows! ;D
oh ! this is because you need to update your game to 1.0.6 (at least)
I'm working on it! It will take some time. :P
Any idea what could be causing the issue with my barley and lettuce seeds?
Running 1.07 beta build 170608
Quote from: irrelevant on August 30, 2017, 02:30:22 AM
I'm working on it! It will take some time. :P
Any idea what could be causing the issue with my barley and lettuce seeds?
yes. probably you had an old barley/lettuce mod made with 1.0.5
from 1.0.5 to 1.0.6 Luke changed the way custom crop material "appear" "or is draw" at the screen, in game.
if once you do your upgrade if not still showing... just delete the crop and rebuild it but i think thats automatic.
is my NMT crop mod is ontop of your barley/lettuce one ?
I found them, I'm an idiot ;D They were there all along, I didn't notice the slider on the crop field.
Just looking at the first couple of years, the crops are OP, one farmer is getting 200 tiles. They all outperform beans. We'll get them tweaked around nicely. ;)
In addition to sorghum, barley also is growing mere shadows.
Quote from: RedKetchup on August 28, 2017, 08:04:52 PM
crop name : temp / range / month
Barley : 65.0 / 65.0 / 2 (should be original numbers from [CC])
Broccoli: 65.0 / 65.0 / 2
Carrot : 65.0 / 65.0 / 2
Cucumber: 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Kale : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Lettuce: 65.0 / 25.0 / 2 (should be original numbers from SRS)
Pea : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Radish : 70.0 / 25.0 / 3
Sorghum: 65.0 / 65.0 / 2 (should be original numbers from [CC])
Spinach : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Strawberry:65.0 / 65.0 / 1
Tomato : 65.0 / 25.0 / 2
Turnip : 65.0 / 65.0 / 2
Watermelon:85.0 / 45.0 / 2.5 (should be original numbers from [CC])
i kinda took a file.rsc and i copied and i renamed the file and renamed the names inside; i didnt put alot of care, out of strawberry. since it is a spring/early summer fruit i did put 1 month for the strawberry. i have no idea what should grow fast, grow late, temperatures... etc
@RedKetchup I can see now that I don't need to continue my testing, most of these crops are insane! Not your fault, you just took what was already there with CC. The ones with the temp=65 range=65 will grow between 33F and 130F. They don't die from frost until the temp falls to 0F. Utterly OP. If that is typical of CC crops, no wonder CC is so popular!! ;D
I'll just do some reading and get you some realistic crop temps, ranges, and months. You can make the changes and I'll do testing from there.
Okay, here is v1.0
Barley : 45.0 / 25.0 / 2
Broccoli: 45.0 / 25.0 / 2.5
Carrot : 60.0 / 30.0 / 2.5
Cucumber: 70.0 / 30.0 / 2
Kale : 45.0 / 25.0 / 2
Lettuce: 55.0 / 25.0 / 1.5
Pea : 55.0 / 25.0 / 2.5
Radish : 55.0 / 20.0 / 1.5
Sorghum: 65.0 / 30.0 / 2.75
Spinach : 55.0 / 20.0 / 1.75
Strawberry: 60.0 / 25.0 / 1.25
Tomato : 70.0 / 30.0 / 2.75
Turnip : 55.0 / 20.0 / 1.75
Watermelon: 65.0 / 25.0 / 2.5
did you check the charts at BL?? there is a range they use. your production numbers are way high.not sure why though.
http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/articles.html/crops/crop-seeds-vegetables-r148/
i ve put your numbers
@irrelevant and compiled.
here the result.
Quote from: brads3 on September 01, 2017, 07:55:35 PM
did you check the charts at BL?? there is a range they use. your production numbers are way high.not sure why though.
http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/articles.html/crops/crop-seeds-vegetables-r148/
It's because I'm really good at farming ;) And because these crops are OP.
I looked up how the crops really grow. If they need tweaking after that, to make them useful in the game, so be it.
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 01, 2017, 08:05:06 PM
i ve put your numbers @irrelevant and compiled.
here the result.
Tu es très rapide, mon ami! I'll start testing tomorrow morning.
@RedKetchup Here are changes for v1.1
Barley : 45.0 / 20.0 / 2.25
Broccoli: 45.0 / 25.0 / 2.75
Carrot : no change
Cucumber: no change
Kale : 50.0 / 25.0 / 2.25
Lettuce: 60.0 / 28.0 / 2.0
Pea : no change
Radish : 55.0 / 23.0 / 1.75
Sorghum: 65.0 / 25.0 / 3.0
Spinach : no change
Strawberry: 60.0 / 20.0 / 1.5
Tomato : 70.0 / 30.0 / 3.0
Turnip : no change
Watermelon: 65.0 / 20.0 / 2.75
done :)
crops 1.1
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 03, 2017, 12:39:05 PM
done :)
crops 1.1
NMTCrops 1.1.zip (3588.1 kB - downloaded 7 times.)
I see I'm not the only one doing testing :)
Quote from: irrelevant on September 03, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 03, 2017, 12:39:05 PM
done :)
crops 1.1
NMTCrops 1.1.zip (3588.1 kB - downloaded 7 times.)
I see I'm not the only one doing testing :)
not sure all the others are testing....
some members doesnt know english and can DL things.... because.... they can click and DL ^^
@RedKetchup Here are changes for v1.2
Barley : 45.0 / 18.0 / 2.75
Broccoli: no change
Carrot : no change
Cucumber: no change
Kale : no change
Lettuce: 60.0 / 28.0 / 1.75
Pea : 55.0 / 22.0 / 2.0
Radish : 55.0 / 22.0 / 2.0
Sorghum: 65.0 / 22.0 / 3.5
Spinach : no change
Strawberry: 60.0 / 20.0 / 1.75
Tomato : no change
Turnip : no change
Watermelon: 65.0 / 20.0 / 2.5
Still just growing shadows for sorghum and barley
Quote from: irrelevant on September 04, 2017, 05:30:00 PM
@RedKetchup Here are changes for v1.2
Sorghum: 65.0 / 22.0 / 3.5
Strawberry: 60.0 / 20.0 / 1.75
Still just growing shadows for sorghum and barley
3.5 months thats alot :P
dont forget strawberry is a very early food (like june in here canada)
about your shadows... this is cause you use an old 1.0.5 patch version of those...
but probably hard to put mine 1.0.7 ontop without a crash.
here the version 1.2 of crops as asked
@RedKetchup You can try 3.25, but the previous changes have not seemed to have any effect, sorghum has gotten 1484 with one farmer every year so far regardless.
I know strawberry is early, but it is OP (averaging over 1000/year with one farmer since the previous change), I'm trying to dial it back some.
When you say I'm using 1.05, do you mean of your NMT town mod?
Quote from: irrelevant on September 05, 2017, 03:13:10 AM
When you say I'm using 1.05, do you mean of your NMT town mod?
do you any mod outside my pack of crops, which one ?
(i meant a mod (which whatever name) that has been made with 1.0.5 toolkit for 1.0.5 patch game.)
Actually most of the mods I am using were made with 1.0.4 or 1.0.4B. I don't have any made with 1.0.5, but I suppose earlier versions would be the same.
Quote from: irrelevant on September 05, 2017, 04:20:36 AM
Actually most of the mods I am using were made with 1.0.4 or 1.0.4B. I don't have any made with 1.0.5, but I suppose earlier versions would be the same.
yeah exactly. between seasons, put nmt30 crops ontop of your list of mods to see the plants (not just their shadows^^)
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 05, 2017, 04:44:14 AM
yeah exactly. between seasons, put nmt30 crops ontop of your list of mods to see the plants (not just their shadows^^)
Got it; pretty!
gooood!
that change might have affected his numbers.now he has to start over.LOL what other number controls the production besides growth time and temps?
Quote from: brads3 on September 05, 2017, 06:04:41 PM
that change might have affected his numbers.now he has to start over.LOL what other number controls the production besides growth time and temps?
exactly !! number changes!
Quote from: brads3 on September 05, 2017, 06:04:41 PM
that change might have affected his numbers.now he has to start over.LOL what other number controls the production besides growth time and temps?
No, not start over, just continue testing with new parameters to see how the results change.
@RedKetchup Here are changes for v1.3. This should do it.
Barley : 45.0 / 20.0 / 2.25
Broccoli: 45.0 / 20.0 / 2.5
Carrot : 60.0 / 30.0 / 2.25
Cucumber: 68.0 / 32.0 / 2.0
Kale : 52.0 / 27.0 / 2.25
Lettuce: no change
Pea : 55.0 / 25.0 / 2.0
Radish : no change
Sorghum: 65.0 / 20.0 / 3.25
Spinach : 53.0 / 23.0 / 1.75
Strawberry: 62.0 / 22.0 / 1.5
Tomato : 70.0 / 30.0 / 2.75
Turnip : 55.0 / 23.0 / 1.75
Watermelon: 65.0 / 22.0 / 2.5