There is a guy who will beat the shit out of it. I saw his reddit post about his village. He is at 5,8k Population and have 2.1 million food o.O
The difference between his towns and for example
@irrelevant or my town is that he only uses taverns instead of taverns AND woodcutters.
In fact, taverns dont need place for storage but have a lower trading value. But i seems that the lower trading value from the ale is it worth because of the space it saves
If this is right, i will cry..
What do you guys think?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Banished/comments/3ao9pr/oldschool_banished_5k_pop_reached_year_75_next/
https://www.reddit.com/user/OnkelAqua
His big advantage over Sink Mill is that he has no farms. He doesn't have to worry about the food limit, and the fact that he doesn't have hundreds of farmers means that his job reassignment isn't conking out on him. With that advantage, I think it doesn't matter whether you are producing firewood, ale, or featherpillows.
Also, 109 TPs.
So you would say it is because of the map with space for 109 TPs? Thats why he dont need crops and has also no problems with job assignment. I think if he go on like this he could reach 10k
Did you notice how many orchards he has to support his booze trade?
Quote from: Trizeropz on June 25, 2015, 01:27:15 PM
So you would say it is because of the map with space for 109 TPs? Thats why he dont need crops and has also no problems with job assignment. I think if he go on like this he could reach 10k
Yes, I think so. For Sink Mill I spent 8 hours looking at map seeds, and picked the one I did because it had the most farmland, fewest streams, and beans + grain seeds. I didn't spend much time looking at TP space cause my plan for 5000 didn't require scads of TPs, and I wanted to build a balanced town. But he has a good strategy for high pop without food production, and he picked a good map.
If you want to spend hours looking at maps, you can probably find what you need. ;D
Quote from: A Nonny Moose on June 25, 2015, 01:27:30 PM
Did you notice how many orchards he has to support his booze trade?
Yes, but his orchards have ceased producing because of the food limit.
Why do you mean breweries has a lower trading value? I mean that if you buy food it's higher, for other stuff about the same.
It's no advantage that ale isn't stored. If you have many breweries, partly far away from the ports the traders haven't time to get it all collected. OK 109 TP are 2180 traders. That's a lot, but if he want 10000 inhabitants, he will need a lot of breweries as well. If he has a good computer and has the luck to be spared from bugs, it might be possible.
He has 856 brewers, lol. I think that may be more than he needs ;)
Also, something about that map looks odd to me. The lakes are too small. I think he has used some giant, ultra-flat, map mod. There is not one little hill in his town.
http://imgur.com/a/K1C5U#0
right no hills at all. easy with such maps, that can add a + 5k pop on a large
or he used the flatten tool
Oh, i didnt see that. Im colorblind so i cant the the difference between hills and flatland. Yeah without hills its easy. Phew!.... I really thought he would go to 10k without mods. That would be goddamn insane.
I dont know if im right but firewood has a value of 4 and ale just 3 or am i wrong?
Even if both would have 4 i think ale is more effecient.
@Nilla yeah they need to go to The tavern instead of the stockpile. But if you place a stockpile near every 4-8 woodcutter(what you should do) They dont need to go much longer to a tavern
ale = 8
Nahh i was talking about what you get more:)
Example: I buy 1000 logs, chop it to firewood and sell the 3000 firewood i got. So i multiplicated it with 3. Same with taverns. But i dont know how exactly the tavern do this. How many for and how much ale it gets out of..
And with this system i wanna know which is more worth with all aspects like , size of the building, storage, how long they need to walk....
also i read somewere that you can store more ale than firewood in a tp
1 log worth 2 gives 4 firewood worth 12 (food) or 16 (other). Profit: each wood (16-2)/4=3,5 or (12-2)/4=2,5 (educated workers)
3 fruit worth 1 gives 1 ale worth 8. Profit each ale 8-3=5
The productivity of the woodcutter is higher, for a decent maybe 600 for the woodcutter and 400 for brewer.
That means:
1. Firewood (not foodmerchant) 2100 each year
2. Ale 2000 each year
3. Firewood to foodmerchant 1500 each year
I am not sure any of these stats are useful for enjoyment of the game, but it is nice to see some of them. Overall, though, please remember this is supposed to be a leisure time pursuit, not a stress point.
Thanks
@Nilla thats what i meant, but i wanna test if the not-needed-storage from tavern compensates the lower trading value. The size of the footprint is the same.
@A Nonny Moose, i knew someone would said that. Yeah most people dont like to play like this. But i love it. I think winning is fun. I will always try somehow to be the best^^ Sounds stupid but its true
The actual stress is at the start of a game :D
@Trizeropz : Whatever floats your boat. This program isn't one you can really win, since it doesn't have any winning goal. One of the reasons I like it is that it is really interminable as long as you put up with it. At worst you can lose by having all your bannies die on you.
I don't know if you've ever tried other games of this type, but I've been a SimCity 4 Deluxe player since it came out, and it has the same sort of simulation that just goes on forever.
I know, I'm kind of a geek. 40 years of engineer training cannot be forgotten, not even by playing computer games. I do such calculations all the time, don't really think about it. Can't help it. :P :-[ ;)
And once more
@Trizeropz, ale hasn't a lower trading value if you buy food. (and I know you have to buy a lot of food in a big town) I just showed it in my calculations.
@A Nonny Moose, no it doesnt give you a goal. I set it myself. The first goal was to reach 200 citizen, then 3k, 5k. Now i´ve set my goal to 8k population. I dont care how long it takes. Its my goal and if i reach it, i won. Easy.
No i dont play strategie games like this before. The most similar game i played is Age of Empires 2.
@Nilla yeah im sorry^^ i just wrote it like this because i dont know how to express it correctly, and i knew you would understand what i meant;)
I don't have time to write any deep explanations right now (on a break in a pokergame). Just wanted to say hi :) (yes I'm the one from that reddit thread)
welcome :)
Quote from: OnkelAqua on June 27, 2015, 09:03:25 AM
I don't have time to write any deep explanations right now (on a break in a pokergame). Just wanted to say hi :) (yes I'm the one from that reddit thread)
Hi
@OnkelAqua, welcome, good to have you here.
So the question everyone has for you is, what mods are you using in that town?
Thats not a secret. I'm using the larger mod (not a huge map - just larger) and no other mods.
I bought this game just when it came out. After reaching 2500 pop in a large map with room for 82 ports (and lots of room left for housing etc), the game started to crash in every single savegame. So I banished the game for + 6 months. There were a few updates, and I tried it out Again. Also to check out the mods, besides to see if the game had been fixed. The game wasn't able to load the old crash game, so I had to start over again.
I wanted to reach those 2500 pop fast, to see if the game started crashing Again, so I just picked the easy larger map. It just kept going, and with 6800 pop it is still ok. So you could say this was a test game.
My last trade game (with the 2500 pop) was with just aletrading too and had the same kind of graph with the population boom, getting higher and higher and + 1 mill food. I think it is easier to manage. You don't have to think about the tradeports space. When I tried a combination between ale and firewood in another game, I got anoyed, when I reached the limit and was forced to trade t.e.x. 1000 firewood for stone 4-5 times in a row.
Only real annoying thing here is the food limit at 999.999. I would like to try out a herdsmen game with sheep/cows and lots of tailors for warmcoat export or perhaps a combination with ale for 50% tradeports and warmcots for the other 50%. But if you get above the foodlimit, you will not get the wool and leather, as well as the mutton/beef. I know it is not realistic that you can storage apples t.e.x. for several years, but it is not realistic either, to say "oh we have reached 999.999 in production - let the cows and sheep die.."
But try an all ale game for yourself, and check out the power of the ale ;)
"He has 856 brewers, lol. I think that may be more than he needs ;)
Also, something about that map looks odd to me. The lakes are too small. I think he has used some giant, ultra-flat, map mod. There is not one little hill in his town."
You are just not thinking 4. dimensional ;)
The problem with megatowns are apprantly the happiness factor. When I had 6-700 Breweries, I had an ale production of 250K of ale per year. It started dropping fast, so I checked out the brewers (had +800K of apples in storage, so I knew that couldn't be the problem) and aprox 50% of those I checked had half a star of happiness. Overall happiness for the entire population were 4,5 stars. I rearranged all the workforce except for teachers and clerics, to be sure everyone got a job close to their homes. Well Things improved for about ½ year, then a decline in production happened Again, and the brewers were unhappy once again. Right now I have about 1050 Breweries, which produces 170K of ale per year. I have added wells and cemeteries like crazy, but I guess that just doesn't matter. So I DO have to have that many brewers and plan on adding even more of them :)
@Nilla "OK 109 TP are 2180 traders"
Njaa. Each tradeport uses 6 workers. You could ofcourse add 14 more at each if you want to (I tried to add 4 more, to check out if those lazy workers would empty the tradeports faster - haven't seen any great effect yet) :)
Quote from: OnkelAqua on June 30, 2015, 10:58:13 AM
@Nilla
"OK 109 TP are 2180 traders"
Njaa. Each tradeport uses 6 workers. You could ofcourse add 14 more at each if you want to (I tried to add 4 more, to check out if those lazy workers would empty the tradeports faster - haven't seen any great effect yet) :)
Really! You have only 6 each in that big town! Maybe the low productivity has more to do with ale not being transported from the many breweries, than of the happines. In my big trading economies I always had 20 in each port and when I depended much on ale, it was too few!!!!!
I'm at 10 in each tradeport. Fact is, lots and lots of the brewers are unhappy (half a star) and that Means a lot less productivity. When they produced 250K of ale, I only had 6 at each tradeport.
There was a person named Der Cossack or something, who posted videos to youtube many months ago, and if I recall correctly, he also eventually got past 3k citizens. Of course, he also had a ton of trading posts, but I think the main thing he was trading was firewood.
In theory, I don't see how it would matter that much if your trading profit is more or less per trade if the difference isn't that big because the whole point is to scale up production and number of exchanges (TPs). Unless you weren't gaining any value from trade, the restriction/constraints are stuff more like the food limit and available space on maps.
To trade firewood you'd need many, many foresters and woodcutters, which probably means scattered population. How would you keep them fed and clothed? How many markets would it take to cover your map?
Re: A Nonny Moose;
I'm pretty sure there are people in this thread who have made high population maps with firewood or other products. Check out Trizeropz's thread in the Village Blogs section of this forum or do a youtube search for Der Cossack's banished 3k video like I had mentioned.
The trick is you're trading to get logs once you get past the starting phase. So, you don't need that many foresters just like you don't need tons of orchards to produce ale. People who play this way build tons of woodcutters (or any production building that gets you a net trade profit). If you grow all your own fruit, you also run into the a similar problem of having your citizens spread out. It's not exactly the same, and there's benefits and disadvantages to orchards, but it's similar enough. The point is, you are trading for many supplies. I've seen people not produce much food at all and trade for it. There's a reason why you need to build 10-100 trading posts when you play like this.
btw.... since the title of the thread is : Taverns > Woodcutter ? ^^
i was in the process to add 'mead' to NMT ....
and i have the debug tools (helpful for testing what i am doing....) and i was adding 'alcohol' like crazy in my tavern and i notice that when the citizens arent doing nothing, idling, they can drink all day , all the time, till i 'occupy' them lol.
they literally pass their days to drink at an incredible speed lol
so if you dont want your citizens steal your ale before your traders pick them up... you better to occupy your citizens cause if they do nothing, they will pass their days to drink... and drink really alot without no limit as time flies ^^
@RedKetchup thanks for the info:)
@RedKetchup yeah, I know... I'm saying it doesn't really matter if firewood trades for less profit because there are other factors like people (for example) drinking the ale and using the firewood.
In my opinion, you probably should use both ale and firewood depending on circumstances. It's not as simple as "ale is always better because you gain more profit from trading." I was discussing some of these other factors in order to explain why. It's oversimplification to do the math for trading value without accounting for the fact that the multiplier (ie. number of exchanges) is not fixed.