All who come from the Simcity world are probably used to the fact that plugins can be organized in sub-folders and/or be re-named to anything the user likes or to set a specific load-order...
Not so in Banished - I just tried to put some early order into my quickly growing mod-collection... Well, surprise! None of them worked anymore after this.
I can not organize mods in sub-folders under [WinData]. They simply don't show up in the ModMenu.
Worse - I can not even give them more meaningful names. They show up fine in the ModMenu, but not in the game.
I see problems with that in the future - either by doubled file-names, or by the sheer chaos of finding a particular mod in a heap of inconsistently named mods all bunched up in a single directory.
The programmer is new to the idea of mods, or at least newer to that concept than he is to the concept of a game. He only decided to add modding after the game was released, and was writing the game itself for years before its release. That is the why of, but not the solution to, the problems.
Quote from: Paeng on September 04, 2014, 12:12:03 AM
Worse - I can not even give them more meaningful names. They show up fine in the ModMenu, but not in the game.
That seems weird. Why would the name of the .pkm file matter?
I'm OK with the difference between one guy programming and EA being able to through an army of programmers at a project. That being said, it would be nice to be able to organize mods in a rational folder structure. The one place my mind is tidy is when I'm organizing folders on my HDD. ;D
This is really important. There is clearly a problem with the access method used to attach the mods.
As a long standing player of SimCity 4 Deluxe, I expect to handle mods the same way as, I am sure, does Paeng. The method of accessing mods in SC4D is simply to use the call in the file system that appends the complete path name to the file then loads the file. This allows sub-directories of any depth. Not much programming, but a great convenience to all.
The next iteration should contain this fix.
I have renamed my mods with no problem. They seem to work okay, although you have to reload them into any saved games if you had been using them there under a different name.
Yeah well, I'm not 'blaming' Luke... :)
It's just something I saw last night, and I know that this is gonna be a pita sooner rather than later...
My idea is to ask to the modding community to set up a system, sort of a naming convention... Maybe something like
[Creator][Mod Name][Version].pkm or so...
I mean it's in everybody's interest to give the files some unique identifier... ;)
Quote from: slink on September 04, 2014, 08:05:00 AMI have renamed my mods with no problem.
Well, that is quite strange... I tried all kinds of things last night - renamed plugs just don't show in my setup (not even with reloads or re-starts in between)... Now I'm confused.
EDIT
Slink, did you try sub-folders as well (with success)?
Quote from: Paeng on September 04, 2014, 08:13:10 AM
My idea is to ask to the modding community to set up a system, sort of a naming convention... Maybe something like
[Creator][Mod Name][Version].pkm or so...
I mean it's in everybody's interest to give the files some unique identifier... ;)
Just so long as we don't descend to the practice of issuing permits for ranges of identifiers, as they did in the Sims community. I was making mods for the Sims before everyone else, and the community had the nerve to tell me that I had to remove my initials from the identifiers because I was infringing on someone else's later-issued range. I didn't, by the way. :P
Quote from: Paeng on September 04, 2014, 08:13:10 AM
Quote from: slink on September 04, 2014, 08:05:00 AMI have renamed my mods with no problem.
Well, that is quite strange... I tried all kinds of things last night - renamed plugs just don't show in my setup... Now I'm confused.
I did not include any special characters. Might you have done so?
Maybe there is something Luke could do on his end to make this easier?
Quote from: slink on September 04, 2014, 08:20:38 AMissuing permits for ranges of identifiers
Nah, I'm not too fond of that kind of stuff either... ;D
QuoteI did not include any special characters. Might you have done so?
No, I did remember some earlier reports from the modders that this game is dicey with special chars... within the scripts, I thought... but I avoided them anyway, even though I'm not really a 'camel-back' fan :-X
Well, I'm completely stumped - just spent another hour on this... can't get my (re-named) plugs to show in-game... :-\
Quote from: mariesalias on September 04, 2014, 10:24:09 AMMaybe there is something Luke could do on his end to make this easier?
Oh, absolutely... Nonny described it spot on...
This is something else I think we need a special modders group and board for to hash these things out and present a focused, organized approach to the Banished players of the world as a proposal or guideline we can use to help everyone.
Do we have enough serious modders who want to discuss things privately and work out code where the members will respect who has done what and give credit where credit is due? Then as agreed upon in private discussions and organized efforts present to the public boards a proposed organization for mods and those interesting in modding.
Sounds good or I'm up too late again?
personally i dont see a problem. as we can continue like this, or have a private room, both is fine too me.
Public is fine with me. I also don't mind Paeng's suggestion of CreatorModnameVersion although that can get pretty long and version is supposed to be built into the mod's in-game description. Perhaps just CreatorModname.pkm?
As for credit, there is an issue of whether modders will co-operate or whether they will compete. My guess is some of each, with varying degrees of honesty. Isn't that the case in all human endeavors?
I think I like
@Paeng's suggestion because I would like to be able to see the version number without opening the game (e.g., keeping an old version in an "old versions" folder in case a new version introduces a bug). I followed this practice in my SC4 folders and it has helped keep track of things. I find that especially in Civ5 mods, new versions sometimes break something that had been working well, so I save old versions before I download.
As someone who is primarily a mod user rather than a mod creator (though I would really like to learn how!) I would appreciate some way to bring various mods together while avoiding conflicts. A modders board might well be the way to go, though, as I said in another thread, it would be nice if it had a learning channel for those of us who want to learn.
If anything, I am a mod user. I remember a call when I was active in VS programming that could list the complete pathname of a set of files in an extended dialogue box, and it was rather miraculous to have the run-time do all this work.
After you get the list in your dialogue it becomes rather trivial to parse the file name if that is what is needed. I also recall that there is some kind of reverse parsing function available. So this little oversight is easily fixed.
Mods can then be buried to any depth. I generally use
<my account>/game/plugins/source/modname.
Just keep in mind that mods apparently cannot contain "." in their name, which is often used in denoting versions.
Edit: Okay, I've just re-posted my Large Pasture Override as SJGL_Large Pasture Override_2.
Quote from: rkelly17 on September 05, 2014, 07:46:00 AMI would like to be able to see the version number without opening the game
Yep, same here... it really helps to avoid accidentally loading an old version (seeing that passionate players are also true collectors who
never throw away anything) ;D
Quote from: slink on September 05, 2014, 10:37:51 AMI've just re-posted my Large Pasture Override as SJGL_Large Pasture Override_2.
Cool, and a relief to see that the underscore works, too...
*note something isn't working right in my browser with quote so:
"Paeng -
Yeah well, I'm not 'blaming' Luke... :)
It's just something I saw last night, and I know that this is gonna be a pita sooner rather than later...
My idea is to ask to the modding community to set up a system, sort of a naming convention... Maybe something like
[Creator][Mod Name][Version].pkm or so..."
I'd suggest in order[Mod Name]>[Creator]>[Version] - Creator should perhaps be a user handle and not a person's RL name followed by their RL initials. there are so many people in the world and i can see it causing conflicts where as a user handle can be much more variable.
there would still be conflicts of coarse but there would be so many more choices in a handle.
On the subject of organization i'd love the save system to be officially updated to use a subfolder directory system using the town's name and a random number attached (taken from OS clock day/month/year hours, minutes, seconds?) combined with a UI save selection like mass effect series uses.
That way it'd be a drag and drop, backup affair of specific town saves.
I'd think creator's name first would be best, that would be a way for people to easily recognize a mod from a trusted source? Plus mod names will tend to blur together as more get created.
Quote from: Pelojian on September 11, 2014, 05:12:58 PMi'd love the save system to be officially updated to use a subfolder directory system using the town's name and a random number attached
Yeah... well, at least a time stamp would be great, so older saves and shots don't get overwritten by newer ones... Save1, 2, 3 or Screenshot1, 2, 3 etc. in an 'endless loop' doesn't really cut it... oh well ::)
Quote from: irrelevant on September 11, 2014, 06:40:24 PMI'd think creator's name first would be best, that would be a way for people to easily recognize a mod from a trusted source?
Yes, I think so too... to start a file name with the creator's handle is kind of an established "standard"...
But - as I feared... it's already starting. This morning I took my bag o' mods to sort out some stuff... yeah right... my "favorite" of the day must be
The Apiary - I got about 5 different versions by about 3 different creators... all named "apiary.pkm"... ;D
bah i think you have no choice, if they all renamed they wont work anymore :P
Is there a registry of mod names? Is someone controlling it? Without the full pathname for mods on a machine, we've found in Sc4 that duplicates are a real danger.
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 12, 2014, 05:31:50 AMi think you have no choice, if they all renamed they wont work anymore
Well, if that is so (what, because of the way the mods are compiled?), then I think creators should go the extra step and stick their file in a good old ZIP, because an archive can be given a meaningful name/handle/version-number in any case... I would think that sooner or later producers will also start to include a readme, source code, images, whatever... so download packages will be more than just a single file... ;)
yeah cause the way they have been compiled, the name act also as a reference, i think.
my next mode i will do the naming convention you would like. but i cant do for the creamery v 2.3 cause people will end with 2 différents creamery files. we need to keep in mind that not all people are as bright as candle or a light ^^
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 12, 2014, 08:06:35 AMwe need to keep in mind that not all people are as bright as candle or a light
8) Tell me about it...
But I know what you mean - I have written hundreds of readme's and how to's and what not's - only to realize that 90% of them are never looked at...
It's probably near impossible to package things so they are 'fool-proof'... but we must keep trying ;D
Including documentation in a mod package is kind of necessary, so single files seem rather naive. I join with Paeng in saying that an archiver format (.zip is preferred) for the distribution of mods should become standards.
This whole business is in its infancy, and the time to fix it is now.
yeah agree. here we can put the .zip file
some place like Banished Info website only accept the .pkm file.
and when you want to distribute.... you ll get 1000 dl there... and 10 here ^^
Quote from: Paeng on September 12, 2014, 08:40:02 AM
I have written hundreds of readme's and how to's and what not's - only to realize that 90% of them are never looked at...
It's probably near impossible to package things so they are 'fool-proof'... but we must keep trying ;D
Never despair,
@Paeng. I have always read all of your readme filess--but I'm such an ingenious fool that I can still get things wrong. ;D
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 12, 2014, 10:48:45 AMsome place like Banished Info website only accept the .pkm file.
Well, that needs to be addressed then... I took it up in their forum, let's see what
Coffee thinks of this issue...
Quote from: rkelly17 on September 12, 2014, 10:54:46 AMNever despair, @Paeng. I have always read all of your readme files
Good man ;)
Quotebut I'm such an ingenious fool that I can still get things wrong
Yeah, that's the nature of the beast - and the fool is me then, for failing to express things in a clear enough fashion... But believe me, producers develop an uncanny 'antenna' for whether a question is asked due to confusion or due to... well, ignorance. :)
I read the readme files when they aren't automatically unpacked into some obscure location that reflects how the author feels I should be organizing my hard drive. Often times I never do find them in those cases.
Quote from: slink on September 12, 2014, 06:03:37 PMwhen they aren't automatically unpacked into some obscure location that reflects how the author feels I should be organizing my hard drive.
Agreed, that's a no-go...
Quote from: Paeng on September 12, 2014, 04:08:23 PM
Quotebut I'm such an ingenious fool that I can still get things wrong
Yeah, that's the nature of the beast - and the fool is me then, for failing to express things in a clear enough fashion... But believe me, producers develop an uncanny 'antenna' for whether a question is asked due to confusion or due to... well, ignorance. :)
Just like the students always thought that somehow I couldn't figure it out when they hadn't done the reading. ::)
^ A teacher? Welcome to the club. They think we don't know the material. I had one set that even copped a wrong answer out of a published instructor guide and figured they'd be safe to hand it in as original work. Got them each a zero.
Quote from: rkelly17 on September 13, 2014, 08:43:23 AMJust like the students always thought that somehow I couldn't figure it out when they hadn't done the reading.
I guess I was lucky then - my teaching days were mostly spent in adult education, so I mostly had students who really wanted to learn, for better job opportunities and such... so I didn't have to deal with too much 'cheating'... :)
As for people who don't bother to read instructions - used to wear me out, but now it doesn't bother me any more, I've learned to accept that as a fact. That's what I like most about retirement - we can choose what we still want to deal with... ;)
Quote from: Paeng on September 14, 2014, 07:34:54 AM
That's what I like most about retirement - we can choose what we still want to deal with... ;)
Isn't that the truth! :D
When people ask me what I'm doing in retirement I say, "Exactly what I want to." I don't really do things that are all that different from before retirement, but now I work on what makes me curious and if an interesting tangent presents itself, I follow it.
I've been retired for over a decade, and believe me getting old sucks. I've become more or less immobilized without any wheels (I can't drive safely), and so am a bit of a prisoner in my pad. However, the internet keeps me in touch.
If you lose your mobility, make sure you have a high-speed Internet link.
Quote from: A Nonny Moose on September 14, 2014, 12:48:21 PM
I've been retired for over a decade, and believe me getting old sucks. I've become more or less immobilized without any wheels (I can't drive safely), and so am a bit of a prisoner in my pad. However, the internet keeps me in touch.
If you lose your mobility, make sure you have a high-speed Internet link.
Losing your wheels really does suck.