Will be back ! Suggestions made* !

[Lucy Bextor]

I know with certain European languages, changing the sound of a word often prevents people from understanding it - for example, I found Czech and Polish people had a very difficult time understanding English language phrases if they were spoken sarcastically - because those two languages don't make use of sarcasm anywhere near as much as English does! 

I hope it was a sarcasm.  Sarcasm and other emotional tones are a metalinguistic thing; it doesn't depend on language itself. Emotions and gestures are a part of human, not language. Well, I don't speak about particular cases, when you show the "ok" gesture to an African man and he kills you. I mean human gesture system in general.
Both Polish and Czech are Slavic languages; probably, they have another mentality than English-speaking people, but I don't think your example to be the fault of their languages. When you learn foreign language, it's hard to remember, if the word is neutral or not. The same thing with not direct (figurative) expressions. It's not a problem for native speakers not only of English, but of all languages.

[Nilla]

I've followed this thread with great interest (it was also interesting before this language discussion started here, totally off topic;) ).

I'm very well aware of the language problems, here I'm struggling with my poor English, but also in life. I live in a family, where we speak 3 different languages. I'm Swedish, we live in Sweden, my husband is German. I know German better than he knows Swedish, so normally, we speak German at home. My daughter lives in Australia and have an Australian boyfriend. Unfortunately, I have no special language skills. I mix things up between these 3 languages: not one German word, one Swedish and two English, more like using German grammar when I speak/write English or if I'm in a room with people of different nationalities, I might very well address a Swede, that only speak Swedish in German or opposite.

Not to think about all these subtleties. We do have our own, the Germans also have a lot of them, and the Australians theirs. You all speak so general about English. But as far as I know; it's a big difference between Americans, Englishmen, Australians........ especially when it comes to these small nuances. For us foreigners; impossible.

For this webpage; this international community: I wish, that if someone don't understand, feel offended or hurt by an expression from someone else; ask what's meant. I guess, it might very well be a language misunderstanding.

[Paeng]

On sarcasm -

It's not a problem for native speakers not only of English, but of all languages.

Indeed... and it gets compounded if someone makes a sarcastic remark in a second or third language (not his native language). Their meaning is almost sure to get lost on the way...

I spent half of my 64 years outside Germany, with English of all flavors - British, US, Australian, Pidgin - so I'm rather comfortable with it... but I'm very careful with sarcasm (at least in non-verbal communication), I have seen too many horrible misunderstandings with sometimes dramatic consequences.

I wish, that if someone don't understand, feel offended or hurt by an expression from someone else; ask what's meant. I guess, it might very well be a language misunderstanding.

Yes, I whole-heartedly support that - people need to stay open-minded and not immediately suspect the worst motive because of a somewhat awkward wording... 

[elemental]

You all speak so general about English. But as far as I know; it's a big difference between Americans, Englishmen, Australians........ especially when it comes to these small nuances. For us foreigners; impossible.

You forgot to mention the Canadians and New Zealanders. There's gonna be trouble...

But seriously... many if not most of the non-native English speakers here seem to have no trouble at all expressing yourselves in this messed up language. Some of you had me fooled completely. I never would've guessed that some of you weren't actually native English speakers.

[TheOtherMicheal]

I know with certain European languages, changing the sound of a word often prevents people from understanding it - for example, I found Czech and Polish people had a very difficult time understanding English language phrases if they were spoken sarcastically - because those two languages don't make use of sarcasm anywhere near as much as English does! 

I hope it was a sarcasm.  Sarcasm and other emotional tones are a metalinguistic thing; it doesn't depend on language itself. Emotions and gestures are a part of human, not language. Well, I don't speak about particular cases, when you show the "ok" gesture to an African man and he kills you. I mean human gesture system in general.
Both Polish and Czech are Slavic languages; probably, they have another mentality than English-speaking people, but I don't think your example to be the fault of their languages. When you learn foreign language, it's hard to remember, if the word is neutral or not. The same thing with not direct (figurative) expressions. It's not a problem for native speakers not only of English, but of all languages.

I didn't mean to imply that there was any fault with those languages, just that there is a different method of using aspects of language in those countries compared to many English speaking countries and I found many times when English language sarcasm was not understood by Polish or Czech people (and also French, Egyptians and even some Americans) because the way it's used by someone like me (as a native English speaker but specifically an Australian English speaker), was not something they were usually taught.
I agree with you that their mentality is different to English speakers because the language you use natively has a definite impact on the way you think however I disagree with you in regards to sarcasm in the English language and it's ability to be understood by non-native English speakers.

In the English language we lower the sound, pitch or tone of a word to make it sarcastic whereas many other languages raise the sound, pitch, tone to indicate irony/satire so that creates some difficulties in understanding but more than that, sarcasm is heavily influenced by the culture/society that formed the language, particularly their societal enforcement of status & position. For example, sarcasm is rare in Japan and it's almost unknown in certain Papau New Guinea highland peoples but it's a central facet of communication among the Ju/'hoansi people (also known as African Bushmen) who practice a near total egalitarian life.
In many British Commonwealth nations, who have a more egalitarian idea of status than the oft times class obsessed British or wealth obsessed Americans, sarcasm generally has less to do with a display of emotions or gestures or as a method of belittling/berating someone as it has to do with maintaining a sense of equality between people.

[RedKetchup]

but it is harder to "write" emotional parts in a text, being sarcastic, ironical, joking.... ect to compare the spoken "langage". i mean not "to write" but i mean "to read". i tend to believe all sentence are kinda neutral when i read, and if , some sarcasms has been made.... i rarely notice them.

the only way i know to add some emotional element in a text it is with the "!!!!" exclamation marks ^^ or emoticones lol


btw, dont worry about my thread... page 33++ is time to start a new topic lol

[TheOtherMicheal]

Oops! Sorry @RedKetchup I've wandered off on a completely different topic a few times now   

[RedKetchup]

Oops! Sorry @RedKetchup I've wandered off on a completely different topic a few times now   

haha dont worry ^^ there was no sarcasm in my written sentence ^^ did you perceived some ? lol

[TheOtherMicheal]

Oops! Sorry @RedKetchup I've wandered off on a completely different topic a few times now   

haha dont worry ^^ there was no sarcasm in my written sentence ^^ did you perceived some ? lol

No because I was too busy apologizing for going off topic lol! 

[Nilla]

You forgot to mention the Canadians and New Zealanders. There's gonna be trouble...

I do apologize! 

The "........" was meant to symbolize all other native English speaking people. Sorry for diminish you people. But what about you @elemental? Why only complain on the behalf of the people from Canada and new Zealand and not from Ireland, Jamaica, South Africa and a numerous of others? I guess you should apologize, too!   

[QueryEverything]

ahem and us Australians

You forgot to mention the Canadians and New Zealanders. There's gonna be trouble...

I do apologize! 

The "........" was meant to symbolize all other native English speaking people. Sorry for diminish you people. But what about you @elemental? Why only complain on the behalf of the people from Canada and new Zealand and not from Ireland, Jamaica, South Africa and a numerous of others? I guess you should apologize, too!   

[Nilla]

I did mention you! That's why he complained about some of the others.

It's hard to forget you. My daughter lives in your country at the moment. Far away! 

[QueryEverything]

Ah   I must've missed the post, I haven't caught up on the whole thread, sorry @Nilla
It is a lovely country, but tis very, very far.
My inlaws & sister are in the UK, and I don't get to see any of them much. 
I don't mind so much about the inlaws (lol, don't tell hubby), but my sister I do miss (don't tell her that, lol)

[elemental]

It's hard to forget you. My daughter lives in your country at the moment. Far away! 

You should come and visit. Ignore all that fuss about all the deadly animals. That's just soft-bellied northern hemisphere talk.    Most of us don't die from all the snakes and spiders and crocodiles and killer kangaroos (yes even the herbivores are dangerous). And the weather is lovely, when it's not ridiculously hot. Actually more of us die from skin cancer than from deadly animals. No joke.

[QueryEverything]

And not everyone finds that their new house is infested with red back spiders during their first night in their new house ... 
Just some unlucky ones ...

But, in my current house (I'm between 2), I do have a paddock of kangaroos, they aren't pets, they come & go as they need food and to talk to my tilly

It's hard to forget you. My daughter lives in your country at the moment. Far away! 

You should come and visit. Ignore all that fuss about all the deadly animals. That's just soft-bellied northern hemisphere talk.    Most of us don't die from all the snakes and spiders and crocodiles and killer kangaroos (yes even the herbivores are dangerous). And the weather is lovely, when it's not ridiculously hot. Actually more of us die from skin cancer than from deadly animals. No joke.