MOD: Linen Production - tanypredator
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=105 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=105)
Hi Tany, linen production is a really good idea and had a great importance in earlier times. The plant looks nice and very authentic.
I have a suggestion for it. Flax is actually a crop. It's cultivated for thousands of years. It could grown in a field by the farmers, further processed by your weaver to linen (textile) and then tailored by the tailor to linen clothes. The extraction of linseed oil could be yet another line of your linen production. :)
Thank you,
@Tom Sawyer!
I have planned to add flax as a crop in a further versions, but I don't want to add any intermediate products, I don't want to change the game's idea of production (which has no long chains). That is for big mods like CC, I just want some more biodiversity :)
THANKS YOU ALOT for your contributions :)
@RedKetchup, it is very interesting, and it is great to get help and approval from such experienced modders! The only problem is that I want to play, but I don't want to play without all that mods that I'm going to make ;D
Fantastic! An overlooked area in the game.
No more mushroom, mushroom, onion, mushroom...
:)
I could not have done it without your help,
@kid1293! I hope that the result will add some fun to your game too :)
Quote from: tanypredator on May 30, 2016, 07:20:56 AM
@RedKetchup, it is very interesting, and it is great to get help and approval from such experienced modders! The only problem is that I want to play, but I don't want to play without all that mods that I'm going to make ;D
the things when we start modding ...
we get way more interested to make mod than really playing lol.
we always say to ourself : i will love to play with my mods... but in fact ... we never go back to just play lol ^^
Quote from: RedKetchup on May 30, 2016, 08:54:29 AM
Quote from: tanypredator on May 30, 2016, 07:20:56 AM
@RedKetchup, it is very interesting, and it is great to get help and approval from such experienced modders! The only problem is that I want to play, but I don't want to play without all that mods that I'm going to make ;D
the things when we start modding ...
we get way more interested to make mod than really playing lol.
we always say to ourself : i will love to play with my mods... but in fact ... we never go back to just play lol ^^
That's one of the reasons why I don't want to get into modding.
Flax can be harvested now by herbralists? Hmmm i wonder if this mod is compatible with CC, because Flax there is an crop?
Many of our mods are meant for people who don't use CC.
Quote from: kid1293 on May 30, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
Many of our mods are meant for people who don't use CC.
And we fully appreciate it.
@DesoPL, in my mod flax is gathered by gatherers assigned to the new building - "flax gatherer". It's true that my mods are not for CC, but from what I've read, they
may be compatible, just indicate conflict in mod window (but I never checked it). In the next version flax will become a crop too, that must be even more uncompatible.
About this idea - how much must be a production of clothes per one 10*10 field? What about 10 units?
Quote from: tanypredator on May 30, 2016, 08:08:25 PM
About this idea - how much must be a production of clothes per one 10*10 field? What about 10 units?
That's a good question. It went through my mind when I wrote it is a crop. Compare it with a 10x10 sheep pasture ... I think, Flax should be more productive per 100 tiles as sheep but not owerpowered of course.
Then it will take some time,
@Tom Sawyer, because I don't remember pasture productiveness :)
Also I joined oats and flax mods, but testing showed that there are too many flax plants with too small yield. So I need time to tune it, especially so that it must work well with the crop variant (that means that the amount of flax required per 1 clothes must be higher, and so even higher wild flax yield).
And this mods made my notebook hot. Probably RedKetchup was right that 60-80 polygons are too much. The number of plants must be decreased, especially because there will be more new plants :)
You mean your laptop starts to sweat because your flax? I don't think so. But check the fps in the debug window with your flax on the screen and without.
Because the sheep. You don't remember?^^ You can make a test in game. Or just look at the code. There is a parameter to define the time for the additional raw material. 3 months mean a sheep makes 1 wool every 3 months. The required area of a sheep is 16 tiles. The rest is yours. :)
Are you really thinking about the value, you should change
the yield from 2-3 to something more like 24-30
A year for a gatherer must be worth more than 18 units
You have a value =1 for the Linen.
You can trade them for max 18 and that is not realistic.
@Tom Sawyer, maybe not flax, but the game with all mods. Probably not because flax only, but nevertheless, better to decrease the amount of plants.
So, that gives about 20 units of wool per 10*10 pasture (since not all sheep are mature), that is 20 wool coats with educated tailor. Let it be 25 for flax. That gives 8 flax per 2 linen clothes by educated weaver. That means 64-80 flax to be gathered by gatherer to produce 16-20 linen clothes per year. I'll work on it.
@kid1293, I didn't understand what you have written. I'm a bit sick today :(
Sorry to hear! Hope you get better.
I just said that a year of gathering flax should have a trade value
similar to other gathering/collecting/fishing... activities
Oh. Got it. And close to other textiles per unit of clothes probably.
:) Yes!
Now, go get well! ;)
Thank you, kid1293 :)
I going test this mod with CC and i will later tell if works as intended or not. :)
Ok i did small test.
Wild flax is not appear in game, but still might be usefull if you got flax crop.
Ok final test maked.
Linen Cloths are produced from Flax, but unfortunelly with CC, no wild flax i saw. But still you can produce linen cloths from Flax crops.
Thank you for testing,
@DesoPL. But I suppose that CC has its own linen clothes?
Actually no, i didin't saw linen cloths there.
Quote from: tanypredator on May 31, 2016, 12:29:03 PMBut I suppose that CC has its own linen clothes?
Yeah, in CC you can weave linen from flax, and the tailor then makes clothes with it... :)
don't listen to them... It works great with cc for me.
Quote from: liberty152 on May 31, 2016, 08:05:31 PM
don't listen to them... It works great with cc for me.
You found wild flax crops? Harvested? ;P
Works perfectly. No problem with CC
@liberty152, glad to hear that. Maybe the difference is because of mods placement in mod list?
If anybody has time and desire, I would be grateful for some help in testing. Everything was balanced in my last test, but the amount of plants - that is too much, both in terms of yield and aesthetics. I have changed few parameters, but I'm a bit tired with testing.
And when I say "balanced", that means the cost when trading: both hunters and pastures produce meat apart from textile, so to compensate that (and to meet the cost of crop fields production in future) I had to allow weaver to produce around 40 clothes per year, which is a real cheat at the beginning.
If somebody will test - I wanted gatherers to produce around 350 oats and 70-90 flax per year per gatherer.
I also attach source - maybe somebody can advice on how to decrease the amount of plants. I made "int _seedChance = 25;" for oats (with 65 for usual forest food), but it seems to be only more abundant. But that was with "bool _autoSeed = true;", which now is false.
PS. I have decreased the size of my textures which made a mod 2 times smaller and less heating my notebook :) Blender unwrap them all as 1024*1024.
I don't know if this is what you are asking for
under
GrowthDescription growth
...
...
float _growthForSeeding = 0.0;
Does it mean the plant begins to seed immediately
someone else verify?
Quote from: tanypredator on June 01, 2016, 09:28:54 AM
PS. I have decreased the size of my textures which made a mod 2 times smaller and less heating my notebook :) Blender unwrap them all as 1024*1024.
/sad
you are certainly never used big mods like NMT ?
@kid1293, it is 0.0 for other wild plants too, for the moment the only difference for my plants is the spawn distance (4 in place of 1, because I want to see them in open spaces). I hope that disabling "autoSeed" shall help.
@RedKetchup, I didn't yet. Would you believe that I use mods only for a month? Half of which I had rather made mods than used them ;D
Quote from: tanypredator on June 01, 2016, 10:04:40 AM
@RedKetchup, I didn't yet. Would you believe that I use mods only for a month? Half of which I had rather made mods than used them ;D
haha, i believe you :)
Quote...for the moment the only difference for my plants is the spawn distance (4 in place of 1, because I want to see them in open spaces).
Does that mean your plants spawn at 4 times bigger area?
As I understood, that means that trees spawn my plants 4 times farther, not changing the chance or rate of spawn. But that may be a mistake.
I have tested one more time, and there was almost no flax plants! But still many oats plants. That's some magic. Can it be that "int _seedChance" works upside down? I'll test that tomorrow.
I puted mod below and up CC, no flax plants still.
@DesoPL, I'm sorry, but I can't say anything about that. Never played CC. Do you make modes yourself? I suppose it may be made compatible if all stuff is renamed - e.g., wild flax, rough linen, something like that.
probably , go on this forum (http://colonialcharter.com/index.php/forum) and explain your problem in private messenging to Kralyerg and ask him if he sees something
No solution but I have started a lot of new maps (15+) with the code
you sent us. I didn't change anything in the code, and -
Sometimes there are a lot of flax - sometimes almost nothing
It must be part of the start of a new map.
I only played a year on each so I haven't seen if the flax is
stabilizing over time.
OK, I changed "int _seedChance" of flax to 25 and of oats to 60, and what I saw? Very few oats and large amount of flax! So it really seams to be that this parameter works vice versa, though it is hard to believe. But now I know how to balance their number. Just some more testing needed.
@kid1293, thank you very much! So maybe my guess about "int _seedChance" is not right. Then I'll test new parameters for 2-3 years to check for changes.
25 and 60. OK
I can run a few years too.
I'm going to set 40 and 40 for my next test. I don't want the gatherer to get only 92 oats per year :)
It may be that the parameter is 1 in x, so 1 in 25 is more likely than 1 in 60.
I think
@Tilleen is right. It's 1 of 25 or whatever. In the same way Luke defines chances of other things in the game (tornado, sickness etc.).
Actually I suggest to cancel the "wild flax" and to make a crop plant. But if you want the wild flax, you could take the setting of the other wild plants for a stable amount. Disable the reseeding function. It's not needed and complicates the problem.
The amount of wool on a 10x10 sheep pasture is 24. So you are right, but i think there is no maturing. In this relation your idea to make 40 clothes from a flax field would be well balanced in my opinion. Because the sheep produce a lot of food in addition.
@Tilleen,
@Tom Sawyer, thank you for your opinion and advice!
Tilleen and Tom is right.
It's the inverse of the value.
first I had seedChance to 5 and ran 5 years - a lot of flax and oats
the seedChance to 85 and ran 5 years - much less of both
There were variations but you can clearly see the difference.
I used the same map-seed for both runs.
Including screenshots in zip-file
Edit: Keep the wild flax and rename source files to 'Wild Flax' - then you're
free to do what you want without collision with any other.
@kid1293, thank you!
Quote from: kid1293 on June 02, 2016, 02:34:21 AM
Edit: Keep the wild flax and rename source files to 'Wild Flax' - then you're
free to do what you want without collision with any other.
That is almost what I was going to do :)
Ok I have an idea for you. How about a small game hunter?
@liberty152,
@kid1293 has already made one :)
But after I finish with my plants, I'm going to try adding new animals (certainly birds as wood grouse, then maybe hares and foxes if I could understand making animation). And for them I'll make small hunters :)
he made a small game hunter?
@liberty152, oh! That is my bad english :-[ I thought "small game hunter" means "small building for a hunter that is in game".
No I mean a hunting shack for small animals such as rabbits, pheasants, geese or wild turkeys and squirrels.
This is a big work (except maybe some bird made from chickens), I want to make that, but not soon.
You do great work. I'm excited to see all you come up with.
Thank you! :D
I maked one adintional test.
I puted again mod up the CC and wild flax is grows but not many and when Winter comes, is vanishes like crops on fields.
@DesoPL, I made it to vanish, because it would be strange to have flowers at winter. They must grow again at spring, but that usually occurs at late spring. Still I have had more than enough in my tests. How few were the flowers? Have you gathered them?
Once per spring season, they gathered 54 flax, but later 20 - 30.
@DesoPL, thank you for testing. It was intended that 1 gatherer would gather about 80-100 flax per year, and I've even decreased it slightly in the current "New Flora" mod. So 20-30 per spring is ok (there must be much more at the end of summer), or do you mean that it was per year?
I'm close to finish with my wild roses, then I am going to update "Linen Production". So I can take into account your suggestions.
I'm sorry,
@DesoPL, I've found my mistake. I'm not familiar with Fahrenheit, and flax were too cold-loving - they didn't grow at about 30 degrees C. Also I'll try to make them more abundunt - maybe that will improve the situation with second year and further, when the amount of plants decreases 2-fold. In my last test I had 120 and 80 at first year and only 50 and 70 in second.
The new version is in the mod section - http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=105
Is fine but i encountered wierd bug? I mean not sure if is bug.
I got both new flora and linen production mods activated, they work both fine or not?
@DesoPL, I don't think they will work together. New flora contains linen, and it uses the same trees to spawn plants. I'm testing a new version of new flora now (to include wild roses), it will include corrected linen too.
does this update have all 3 of your mods?
@liberty152, yes it will have all 3 (I haven't uploaded it yet). And I think that this combination I'll leave as a separate file (but include new plants in the main New flora), because other plants must be compatible between each other.
In my test yesterday I had very few plants, so testing will take some time to adjust their amount and yield.
Hi! :)
Are you going to have separate gatherers for each plant?
@kid1293, I am glad that you asked that, I just wanted to ask for advice. At the moment there are separate buildings, but it cannot go further that way. I have to make them separately to upload separate mods, but not in the pack. But I'm not sure how exactly it should be. One building for everything (probably except for flax)? One building for all new wild foods? Or how?
Also I think about includind the functions of Cold Realism and Busy Laborers into at least one version of New Flora, but this version would be not compatible with many other mods.
@tanypredator - It's your choice.
Have flax on it's own.
How many wild food do you plan?
If more than 4 maybe you can group them
and have 'specialized' gatherers. :-\
(berries / grain and so on...)
I don't know anything about Cold Realism.
Sounds like something
@Tom Sawyer can
give you advice on.
Do you have the source for Busy Laborers ?
If not, you have to check in mod list and the
small button with _ on it.
This pictures tells about his resources but
I don't know what he has written.
Maybe you can figure out a way to copy/rename
game resource files and avoid a collision ?
A lot of files but you know it's possible.
Most of his code seems to have his own resource-
files so you just name yours different.
Thank you for detailed answer,
@kid1293 :)
When I add all plants that I want, there would be (including standard):
1 (or maybe 2-3, but much later) wild cereal;
2 wild fruits;
3 wild vegetables;
2 wild nuts;
1 wild textiles.
I don't know, how that can be grouped. I wanted to put together fruits and nuts, well, maybe I should put together vegetables and cereals? So that one can build two little buildings in place of standard big one. Plus one for flax.
Cold Realism makes standard plants to vanish at winter. Not a problem to repeat that, only Tom Sawyer has made his own settings for that in his Nordic Landscape, so that will conflict.
Actually, yes, I can repeat functions of Busy Laborers without conflicts, you are right. What do you think about making separate buttons to gather different types of foods? Is it needed?
Separate buttons if you intend to gather some plants in winter too.
An other thing is that you can check what's missing in the barn,
so you send them out for only that.
And make one for ALL things if you want to collect ALL.
Separate buildings on 'need a new building' only. Make one to begin
with and if you expand your fauna, make two. You figure it out. :)
@kid1293, I'm sorry, I cannot say that I understand you about winter and about fauna.
Quote from: kid1293 on June 09, 2016, 09:11:28 AM
An other thing is that you can check what's missing in the barn,
so you send them out for only that.
And make one for ALL things if you want to collect ALL.
That is exactly what I meant. Just not sure if this separate buttons are needed at all.
It's hard to explain.
I use to give people tasks to do, in winter and in summer.
If there is nothing to gather I can send them to a different
task, a kind of micromanagement from my side.
They are more efficient when given a task. They do not
idle much.
The buttons can be too many or too few, you decide.
If you want just oats then you must send them out
either to gather only oats or everything.
Do wild roses have fruit in the winter?
Yes, so it's a different logic to assigning tasks.
The same people can gather oats in summer and
rose hips in winter. Then you can have just one
button and leave them.
It's always a matter of taste how you play.
You can't always make everyone satisfied. :(
I am no judge of how you make your mod.
It's only if I feel happy about it that counts. :)
And this far you are fantastic!
@kid1293, thank you :)
I'll try to make this clear buttons and then test different variants. What I have in mind now is one parent button in "clear" tools, that expands into "all foods", "cereals", "fruits", "vegs", "nuts", "herbs", and "flax".
Heh, I've found the reason of some (if not most) cases of very decreased yield. It is gatherers' behaviour! When there is nothing to gather they go and do some laborer jobs, but then there are already many plants to gather, and they still continue to do this laborer jobs! Or even just to idle! But if I dismiss them from that workplace and assign again, they go and gather what they should! ??? Don't know if that is connected to any mods or just the game's problem. What is most funny thing is that seems that not all workers behave in this way :)
And also a random distribution of plants.
:)
Glad you found that out.
One thing I find disturbing is when you assign a task,
the person who has longest way to go gets the job.
But I learned that it has to do with where they live,
not where they are at the moment. I'm pretty sure that
the one who has his/her house closest gets the job.
I made the berries, mushrooms and herbs temperature dependent. Roots and onions are available in winter but less substantial. If you change the vanilla wild plants, it would be conflict.
The direct harvesting of wild plants is a deactivated vanilla function. There is a toolbutton included. I think it is only a nice to have in the early game. The main thing is imo that the laborers get a yield while clearing the area for a building or a road. Different buttons for each wildfruit I would not need. Maybe separate buttons for foods, herbs and textiles. So if I need herbs, I can send the laborers to an area to gather it without wasting time for mushrooms. But this is theory. In the game they are too lame. The next winter is coming befor they go for it. The other problem is that the laborers don't gather, they remove it. That means, they dont wait until the plant is matured.
@Tom Sawyer, thank you. I think I'll make different versions of New flora, one compatible with your mod and Busy laborers, and another - with all that I want included.
As a matter of fact, onion cannot survive at winter, roots - only at very mild winter, some berries and herbs and very few mushrooms are available, as well as wild grains and some nuts. But we are limited by the appearance of standard plants, and standard herbs at least don't look good at winter. I'll think about it.
UPD Or no, I'll not include cold realism. My last tests show that they are not interfering.
Hm ok, onions are not hardy. Actually onions don't grow in a forest, or? They should grow on a field. Maybe bulb or tuber would be a better word for it. If I think about this, I have no idea what a kind of edible onion, bulb or root I can find in my forest. Maybe I could eat a couple but I would still be hungry. The same with any kind of grass or "wild grain". There are mushrooms in summer and autum, in winter not. Some berries in summer and your rose hips in winter too. Then maybe hazelnuts and beechnuts. You know beechnuts? But that all would not be enough to feed a family. To survive I hade to hunt. I think the banished gatherer is not realistic. They live in a paradies. :)
Onions: there are some species, but mostly in North America - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_onion
Roots: I would prefer not to eat forest roots :) But in past people ate many of them.
I've found some advices about eating dry seeds of different grasses. And I used to add cowberry leaves to my tea in the forest at winter :) Cranberries and ashberries can be gathered in winter forest.