> > Triple Grins ^_^ < <

[RedKetchup]

the DL at page 15 contain:

Blacksmith + 2e floor
Tailor + 2e floor
Tavern + 2e floor
Hunter cabin + residence

wind mill and water mill
bakery + 2e floor

you will get conflict with : apiary (Honey: exact same files as Apiary so not critical and wont crash)
Yes you will get a conflict with CC ( You cant get my 2e floor BS and their BS features, one or the other, not both : depends which one come first in the mod list)

[assobanana76]

now everything clear! nice work as usual!
when I will have finished the city CC I will begin one with your mod.
in the meantime I could make get along your two mod using your second floor house with their individual stall.. and I want to try also with a specialized stockpile of firewood!
thank you!

p.s. here an example with irrigation canal

[RedKetchup]

I have a doubt ?

what will be the value of 1 bread to the citizen of banished.

if 20 wheat makes 32 flour => 12 units of food more to my citizen.(from windmill or watermill)
but 20 flour makes 12 bread => 8 units of food less to my citizen.(from bakery)

(each citizen of banished eats 100 units of food per year)

yeah i will fix that when i ll get back to it
keep in mind it was (and it is still) a beta 

[Chon Waen]

I would personally go one of two ways with this:
Either Food added, or Value added.

Food added (justification is that ground/cooked foods need less quantity for the same nutrition):
-20 wheat makes 32 flour
-16 flour makes 20 bread
Provided work times are the same for mill and bakery, this should provide a 1 mill, 2 bakery equivalence, and provide double the food output for additional labor and facilities.  Adjusting work times for each will allow you to determine the max productivity of each facility.
Theoretically, this could work as a trade commodity as well, allowing you to trade half your bread for more wheat to process, but taverns are much more efficient in this regard.

Value Added (justification is that ground/cooked foods have a higher value in trade, but not nutrition)
20 wheat(TV=1) makes 32 flour (TV=1)  +12 Trade Value per cycle (60% increase)
20 flour(TV=1) makes 12 bread (TV=3)  +16 Trade Value per cycle (80% increase)
Cumulatively, both steps will give a 188% increase in value (100 wheat @1 => 96 bread @3) making bread a good trade commodity, but a nutrition choice inferior to flour for your citizens.

OR
Have a choice between the nutrition option (call it flatbread)
and  the value option (add 10 honey to the Value added bread above, increase the product's Trade Value to 4, and call them honeycakes)

Just my two bits!

[RedKetchup]

i applied your numbers Chon

Attention !

a new BETA version available with the new Medieval 3-story Houses available here : http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=766.msg12992#msg12992

[RedKetchup]

BTW i heard lately the CC modlers will want to change 'coal' as material instead of 'fuel'. it will mess up all the other mods like this one that use coal as intended ( fuel ) like Blacksmith as example.

since very long time i feel those guys' goal arent make mods to people to use along with their favorite mods but...

but they try to make all the other moddlers 'chessmate' like if all the other mods arent important or even like if they NEED to NOT use any other mods than their CC mod.

i feel that attitude very selfish and presumptuous.

[assobanana76]

mmmmmhhhhh..
sound like very much red issue in future..
how do u think to do with your BS in medieval town?

[RedKetchup]

i will find a way, i will never let them put me in checkmate. too many people love my mods

[kralyerg]

You seem to be making a slightly bigger deal out of it than it really is.

From a technical standpoint, we're actually changing less than the other coal modifying mods.  The Stop Burning Coal mod gives coal the Iron flag, that doesn't even make any sense.  All we're doing is removing the Fuel flag from Coal.  That is 100% of the change coal is getting.  Having Coal not be burnable is a very popular option, not some crazy idea we came up with on our own.

Yes, we're also giving other resources the Coal flag, but that has nothing to do with Coal directly.

I don't understand how giving people what they've asked for (and that other people have already done) is selfish or presumptuous.

I'm very confused. 

[RedKetchup]

bah it is because i always try to make my mods 100% compatible with other mods (CC included) and i will never try to do something that will obligated the other modlers to modify their mods just to make them compatible with mine. i always find a way to make it work 100% fine without messing them up.

by changing the flag of coal 2 options:

1: the mod = incompatible with the other mods then :
1a: or you ask people to put yours 1st in the list and my mods stop to work
1b: or i ask people to put mine 1st in the list and your mods stop to handle the change you did.

2: or i change all my mods that has coal as fuel and recompile them all and reupload them
2a: same for all other modlers
2b: people who will update the new version of my mods can (maybe) start to crash if used and updated on their favorite cities.

about the attitude i was talking: since the begining of your mod, some of you ( i dont feel it was coming from you @kralyerg , you always seemed very correct )... but from the begining i read many comments about : CC is the only mod people need to use, all other are unsignificant and have no interest, all other mods are bad cause they dont fit with your 'theme' ...  et cetera
It is not the exact words but the general idea of the comments i read, explained with my words

i am not sure it is from you but generally from your group concensus. like if some of you wanted and needed to try to eliminate the competition (or at least it's making us feel that way)
and there is really no need for this ! your mod is awesome. there is so much work in it: normal you were many working on this (and me alone)

Note that I am far from being jealous ! i even gave you a copy of all my mods !! if you wanted to take anything you wanted , in part or as a whole, with no right of inspection or agreement of what you would do with it and any change to it ^^ i gave you everything i had and worked out. I share.
I share and I dont have any problem with that. not sure if i ask you ... can i have your template of this or your fbx of that .... you would give lol ^^


but thats the feeling that was spreading, alot.


edit:
so to resolve the issue, i will need to change the 2-3 mods i have that has storage as fuel (like example 2-story blacksmith and give it : fuel | Material ? ? ?)
i will need to change my silos (1 is used to store coal only) and maybe my monastery .... i need to check my list and go read all the template and modify if i need.
recompile them, reupload them, as people to update their mods....

what is exactly the name of the new flag (without typo) Material ?? and what else you did as change ? didnt you switched some other flags (resources) to this 'material' ? ?

[RedKetchup]

i see you are reading @kralyerg ... just let you know i ve edit my post to add and make more clear some aspect of the post. re-read it please

[kralyerg]

Thanks, I was about to reply before re-reading.

What you're saying makes a lot of sense.

I've always tried to keep things compatible as much as I can.

After we incorporated some of your models and the modified them, I made a separate mod that includes all your original models so that people could still use both. (I think you saw one version of this on the banishedmods site, but I've updated it since then, although I haven't posted it widely).


Normally Coal has "Fuel | CoalFuel", we just removed the Fuel, so that coal only has CoalFuel. We just changed the flag string so that it's called Material, but it's still just the CoalFuel flag.  Then we gave other things, like Bricks and Sand and Clay the CoalFuel flag.

Looking at the Coal Silo file that I have, it's already set to work.  It will just store other things as well.

Much of this has actually already happened in the version we released a month ago.  All the other resources were set to CoalFuel and the string changed to say Material.  But in that version we set Coal to be "Fuel | WoodFuel".   In the next version we plan to remove Fuel and put it back to CoalFuel.


I don't disagree with anything you've said.  This all requires some more thought.

[RedKetchup]

Normally Coal has "Fuel | CoalFuel", we just removed the Fuel, so that coal only has CoalFuel. We just changed the flag string so that it's called Material, but it's still just the CoalFuel flag.  Then we gave other things, like Bricks and Sand and Clay the CoalFuel flag.
...
Much of this has actually already happened in the version we released a month ago.  All the other resources were set to CoalFuel and the string changed to say Material.  But in that version we set Coal to be "Fuel | WoodFuel".   In the next version we plan to remove Fuel and put it back to CoalFuel.

wow thats a lot of things and changes and re-changes

so ...
take the actual ingame blacksmith (mine is an exact copy but new graphic)

StorageDescription storage
{
   RawMaterialFlags _storageFlags = Fuel | Wood | Iron;
}


what is should be presently, and what it should be in you next version ?
cause if coal isnt a fuel anymore, the poor guy will go and forth with his coal in the hands endlessly between the stockpile and the BS building ^^

[kralyerg]

"Fuel | Wood | Iron" is what it needs for the current version.  In the next version of CC it will need "CoalFuel | Wood | Iron".

[RedKetchup]

thx @kralyerg

i ll need to check tonight if the blacksmith will want to work properly with coalfuel right at it is presently