irrelevant - Quatre Bras: incorporating mods

[snapster]

Can modders change game demands or requirements? For instance, with new production buildings can they change the variety and quantity of resources and products required to keep people happy?

[rkelly17]

How are the new production buildings incorporated into the balance of the game? Do they just merely give more options or make the game easier?

Depends on the mod. There are mods out there that specifically make the game easier. There are mods that add variety and new production options.

Can modders change game demands or requirements? For instance, with new production buildings can they change the variety and quantity of resources and products required to keep people happy?

My impression is that some parameters are hard-coded beyond the modder's reach but some are accessible. In the example of happiness, it seems that happiness is connected to certain buildings, not to certain products, so a modder can add (or subtract) happiness from buildings. Examples of this are @RedKetchup's Small Chapel (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=496.0) or Adriana's Library (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=544.0). An example of taking away happiness is @RedKetchup's  Bobbi Special DoctorHouse (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=446.0). I've used all of these and they work as advertised. In game you can spot buildings which produce happiness by citizens idling near them. In the vanilla game the only buildings that produce unhappiness are the quarry and the mine. They reduce the happiness of people living within a circle of influence. All of this is set out in available .rsc files, so happiness inducing or reducing mods are possible. Mods which, say, introduce a new food type which is required for complete nutrition may not be.

[snapster]

Complete nutrition doesn't contribute to happiness? If it does, how does it work? Buildings can add or subtract from happiness both generally and within a circle of influence?

[rkelly17]

Complete nutrition doesn't contribute to happiness? If it does, how does it work? Buildings can add or subtract from happiness both generally and within a circle of influence?

I'm not an expert on this, so I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that health (of which nutrition seems to be a big part) and happiness are two separate systems. Every citizen has "hearts" for health and "stars" for happiness. Each is from 0-5 and the two ratings seem to operate independently from one another. The settlement has an average rating for each. Theoretically high health helps keep citizens from getting sick, but I've never seen any in-game evidence of that. In my towns usually by the time disease pops up (often after admitting nomads) the vast majority have five hearts with the occasional citizen with 4.5. You notice the effect of nutrition in the early game when your town doesn't have access to all food types (protein--nuts, meat and fish--fruits, vegetables and grain. On a hard start you don't get access to grain (wheat and corn) until you can trade for seeds. The rest come from gatherers, hunters and fishers.

Some buildings have a happiness circle and some don't. Those that do have different sized circles. Somewhere on this forum someone posted a picture which showed the circles which was, I think, done with the cheat engine. Some add some happiness to those within the circle, some attract people to come idle around them.

[snapster]

So say we're talking about health. Can modders do similar things to health with variety and quantity of foods as they can do to happiness with buildings? And are buildings really the only factor to affect happiness? Other factors can't be added?

[rkelly17]

So say we're talking about health. Can modders do similar things to health with variety and quantity of foods as they can do to happiness with buildings? And are buildings really the only factor to affect happiness? Other factors can't be added?

Not sure about the latter--someone like @RedKetchup who has worked with it in mods would know better. My one attempt would never compile properly and I don't have the patience to keep after it. What is in the .rsc files is a table of happiness types such as security, spirit and health. These are attached to certain buildings (for example, spirit to the chapel and health to the hospital). I'm not sure whether new types not already in the table could be created, but probably not.

As to health, I don't think that new categories can be added, but new foods which fit into one of the pre-existing types can be and are being added. Honey is one example--in fact the honey example in the mod kit was way over-powered because it produced like crazy and was a universal food which fit into all types, so modders have made dialed-back versions so as not to make things too easy.

[RedKetchup]

unfortunatly health factor is hard-coded and cant be imitated for the moment.

[snapster]

They need to make things harder, not less easy. This involves going into happiness and health it seems. Game demands on what it takes to be happy and healthy need to be modifiable. Just adding positive things doesn't achieve much. Or there could be negative additions that positive additions balance or counter.

If things are inaccessible or not modifiable the developer should be engaged. He could well be interested in substantive appeals. Theoretical suggestions or mod products would also be helpful.

[RedKetchup]

i dont know alot of people who would download a mod, a new building which would decease happiness or would trigger bad things IMO. whatever the game!

[snapster]

Then you have no grasp of game balance. Not everyone is like you, which is attested by many games and the people who play them. There are also better modders than you if this is how you think.

[RedKetchup]

of course that are some/many.

and they are alot too who are worst.

[snapster]

The game needs modders that will try to carry it forward, not just add relatively meaningless things to play around with until the boredom is overwhelming.

[Mahnogard]

The game needs modders that will try to carry it forward, not just add relatively meaningless things to play around with until the boredom is overwhelming.

No, the game needs all different types of modders so that mods are available to suit many different play styles. A good selection of mods for any game includes all levels of cheats and challenges.

[snapster]

Yes, I would agree with that revision. One vital aspect seems to be lacking, however.

[irrelevant]

Autumn 23

Yes, I'm still building a town.

Figured out something I can do with all my bounty; buy seeds! Hey maybe that 40-seed mod is useful after all 

So now there's a chestnut orchard coming. I never would build orchards, but with better fields and longer-lived orchards, it's worth it. Thanks to all involved there, you fixed a marginal system.

An additional cattle pasture to supply the creamery.

At the other end of town, not much has changed. Still just five farms; at this point in Sink Mill I had 20+ farms, and 7 TPs. This is just as much fun in a completely different way.