During the initial colonization of the americas there were really 2 big starting industries cod fish and beaver pelts. We have a variety of fishing setups however we have no trap lines. Now for those that may not have ever heard of a trap line all you do is setup traps along a route, preferably one in which many fur bearing animals frequent and check them throughout a season.
It would be very cool to setup a trap line to catch say, fox, beaver, muskrat, racoon, mink,lynx, or just any fur bearing critter that suits your fancy. These could make excellent beginning and long term trading ventures. Im actually surprised that something like it is not in CC given that it would fit very well. Not to mention fur coats, coon hats, bear fur trimmed hoods. Literally these were the top fashions of the time and must haves of the rich and well to do.
Be really nice to have a mod that allowed this type of thing.
I think this was discussed in another Mod dev post a couple of months back, the general consensus was that many of us would play with the trapping options, however there was some concern as to the 'trapping' in itself. How does it evolve, how do the graphics and the animations work etc.
However, given that there are new mods that generate & produce new items without having to have the animals visible, and as such the 'trapping', I think it's an excellent time to review the options.
I know there was a concern from some that it may be too ... visual/gorish etc, however, I agree it does suit the timeline and given that it's a mod, if you don't wish to be an animal trapper player, then simply don't install it.
I know
@RedKetchup new tower offers new pelts & furs, but I agree, something new like a trapper would be excellent.
@Necora Maritimes mod does have a Pine Trapper, which he is developing into a full production line, and definitely worth downloading and playing with. Check out the thread over on BL forum, there is a lot of development there.
For those that can't run larger mods, then certainly an indie mod would be excellent.
Personally, I don't see there's any different between trapping and the "go hunting" mod, you don't see slaughter, and we wouldn't have to see animals trapped in the animation and visual aspect of this new mod.
I completely agree with you, trapping is a big part of colonial times missing from the game.
When I first started using the forums, I had the same question. Now I have learnt more, I have more of an idea why it has not been done, mainly due to the issues with animating models for the game. Apparently, it is very hard and time consuming, something modders don't always have. So the idea of introducing new animals, at least wild ones that roam the map, is on the back burner to some degree, and I hope that some day someone with a lot more skill than I will do it.
However, I did decide, and it seems
@RedKetchup has come to the same conclusion, that furs just need to be in the game. RedKetchup's new training camp has a tower that produces fur at a random rate with some other goodies. I was planning to have the traps spawn in the wild like onions etc. do now, which are harvested by a trapper. I did toy with the idea of dead animals in the traps, but that might be pushing it so the traps will be generic. The problem with this is that it also limits what you can introduce in terms of variety of game and fur produced, because you don't want the map covered in different types, it makes it too easy. So it will be just general fur and game, that could be processed into different types in another building.
Making it too easy is another factor that I am considering when making food production buildings from now on, I want to find a way to make them a little more costly by adding some sort of dependency, like you need to build traps before you can trap the animals. I know
@Discrepancy was trying to implement this sort of thing, I'm not sure how it is going though.
I like the idea of fur hats etc. and am thinking about a new clothing line where the basic clothing, leather coats, wool coats etc. are as they are, but then there are more levels which rather than different types of coat, they will be combinations of things like hats, shoes, coats, under garments etc. We'll see how it goes!
Thanks, Ill definitely check those out. Much appreciated. By chance would you happen to have a link to that discussion? Id like to give it a good read.
I agree that the gore thing really doesnt hold water. We have butchering....butchering is a LOT more gory than trapping.There are no gory things with the butcher sheds other than the blood spots on the ground and for me its a bit of a stretch to call it gory. Id easily put that into the realism category. My father trapped, all my brothers trapped and I hunted a lot growing up and I can say with a high level of experience that when I butcher a deer its a lot more messy by orders of magnitude than anything to do with trapping. So I dont think there would need to be any gore type graphics at all.
Quote from: Necora on February 10, 2017, 06:34:54 PM
I completely agree with you, trapping is a big part of colonial times missing from the game.
When I first started using the forums, I had the same question. Now I have learnt more, I have more of an idea why it has not been done, mainly due to the issues with animating models for the game. Apparently, it is very hard and time consuming, something modders don't always have. So the idea of introducing new animals, at least wild ones that roam the map, is on the back burner to some degree, and I hope that some day someone with a lot more skill than I will do it.
However, I did decide, and it seems @RedKetchup has come to the same conclusion, that furs just need to be in the game. RedKetchup's new training camp has a tower that produces fur at a random rate with some other goodies. I was planning to have the traps spawn in the wild like onions etc. do now, which are harvested by a trapper. I did toy with the idea of dead animals in the traps, but that might be pushing it so the traps will be generic. The problem with this is that it also limits what you can introduce in terms of variety of game and fur produced, because you don't want the map covered in different types, it makes it too easy. So it will be just general fur and game, that could be processed into different types in another building.
Making it too easy is another factor that I am considering when making food production buildings from now on, I want to find a way to make them a little more costly by adding some sort of dependency, like you need to build traps before you can trap the animals. I know @Discrepancy was trying to implement this sort of thing, I'm not sure how it is going though.
I like the idea of fur hats etc. and am thinking about a new clothing line where the basic clothing, leather coats, wool coats etc. are as they are, but then there are more levels which rather than different types of coat, they will be combinations of things like hats, shoes, coats, under garments etc. We'll see how it goes!
Is there any reason it couldnt / wouldnt work as follows?
Use say a tiny building
Place along a creek / lake (assuming your going after a specific fur bearing critter such as beaver) or anywhere if your just using generic furs
They have an AOE like a forester
They only produce from late fall to late winter (which should keep the numbers in check and its realistic as thier fur is not considered ready till after its been cold for a while to allow the second fur layer to develop)
Once you have the furs youd need Tannic Acid and salt. Salt is used in bucket loads to remove the fat from the skin and tannic acid is used to dress the fur or remove the fur entirely giving you a hide.
Tannic Acid can be produced buy putting water in a stump for a few weeks ( my dad used this technique) or in game terms firewood in a barrel of water or something like that, salt mines we have plenty of
So you could make either hides or very soft supple furs.
its seems like the above would give you a good production line? I think?
BTW - do you have a link to your mod? Is it on steam or available for download somewhere?
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1342.150 try that discussion link. some of what you suggest NORMINIX is in necora's head,lol. the problems we have found is the animation of the wild animals and also the limits of the hunter circles. you get x amount of squares and are limited to that many products. as the forest ideas have expanded, the idea now is to fake it so to speak. instead of a trapper running around checking multiple traps,it will be understood that he did that and a ruff lodge type building will be designed as a trapper's hut. and then we will get a new chain of furs and clothing etc.
Quote from: brads3 on February 10, 2017, 07:08:19 PM
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1342.150 try that discussion link. some of what you suggest NORMINIX is in necora's head,lol. the problems we have found is the animation of the wild animals and also the limits of the hunter circles. you get x amount of squares and are limited to that many products. as the forest ideas have expanded, the idea now is to fake it so to speak. instead of a trapper running around checking multiple traps,it will be understood that he did that and a ruff lodge type building will be designed as a trapper's hut. and then we will get a new chain of furs and clothing etc.
Thank you for the link.
yes I agree with that. It sounds very good.
Quote from: Necora on February 10, 2017, 06:34:54 PManimating models for the game. Apparently, it is very hard and time consuming
That is one of the problems... another one is whether it is really sensible to add more (very small animated) animals. :-\
I could live well with just the
assumption that loads of small creatures (fox, beaver, muskrat, racoon, mink, lynx, rabbits, rats, racoons, snakes etc.) roam the Banished world... :)
We have the example of the ducks in CC - an animation that in my eyes does not really add much to gameplay visuals (with all due respect, so sorry), except a huge hit on performance (at least for folks with less "beefy" rigs)... I must admit that I cringe when I hear requests to add animated rabbits and similar small (tiny) game to roam complete maps. For me the buck stops at (confined) pasture animals of at least a reasonable size, e.g. goats or such...
*
Modders might also want to check back with Denis dela Rive who did complete research, chains and balancing for Fur Trapping, Fur Trade, Trapper's Hut producing fur, Furrier's Hut, as well as other chains... ;)
There's also limited use of fur in Red's Training Camp mod. The hunter's towers produce various meats along with generic leathers & furs and there is a tailor that makes "winter coats" from leather & fur or "fur coats" from just fur.
Quote from: Paeng on February 10, 2017, 07:25:43 PM
I could live well with just the assumption that loads of small creatures (fox, beaver, muskrat, racoon, mink, lynx, rabbits, rats, racoons, snakes etc.) roam the Banished world... :)
I couldnt agree more - if the stopping blocks to it are animal animations, just dont put them in. Im perfectly happy without the animations. They would be an awesome addition but if its more problem than its worth, then by all means dont bother with it.
I think if say you had a small building and when you assigned a worker to it you had a choice of which ever small critter you wanted to trap for would be a good compromise to not having animals roam the map.
I think it's all possible to an extent, (and I'm not a modder, the Dev & mods will be able to correct my assumptions) after all, fisherman catch the invisible fish, the new marine proteins are also invisible, until there is a basket of them.
Timing however would need to be based on something, maybe the leaves code (BL team have talked about this, and that's how Shockpuppet &
@kralyerg have modded some of their mods), but, would it work on a building, or at least connected to a profession? Like the fields, could the fields code be hijacked for their timing. When the fields are fallow then the hunters trap XYZ, when they are tended the hunters ABC, it's connected to the seasons, but, I don't know if that's how the leaves codes work ... All just thinking this outloud, I have no(!!) ideas :D
I don't need to see rabbits, I just need them to appear in the storage :D
Rather than visual 'traps', what about little warren & nests on the ground in the radius? (If a radius us used). Much like the blossoming gatherables, and in
@kralyerg's Krazy collection, all the different foresters, the trappers area, radius etc, will produce little mounds of warrens, nests etc on the ground, and along the river; just like the little basket of berries & grapes etc.
PAENG do you have a link to that trapper's page?? might be an interesting read especially for the modders. i agree with the ducks,the no more ducks mod did really good at fixing it.no more ducks overpowering the deer hunters and yet the duck blind still works fine. i do throw the animal decorations out,the bear near the forest mods, a fox or 2 on the creekbanks,etc. they work well to have animals on the map. with the trees you don't see into the forest much anyhow.
no,there is no calendar controls. necora and i did have that discussion at CC.no way to piggy back it even. as to placing furs or pelts in the forest then we have another problem. we are running out of squares for the items to create on. i think the forest is about maxed on different items now.in order to have so many items we get less of each 1 now.that is 1 reason to the idea of "faking it" so to speak. as RED has shown , a building can create furs and skins without an area circle. i think NECORA is trying to finish and fine tune the mods he has made,and then he may try to develop a chain for trapping and clothing.he probly will need a break 1st with all the work he has done in such a short time.
So modders dont have access to anything that can control time? No access to functions or an ability to write your own functions or at least grab some pre-exisiting time based variables?
Quote from: Paeng on February 10, 2017, 07:25:43 PM
That is one of the problems... another one is whether it is really sensible to add more (very small animated) animals. :-\
I could live well with just the assumption that loads of small creatures (fox, beaver, muskrat, racoon, mink, lynx, rabbits, rats, racoons, snakes etc.) roam the Banished world... :)
We have the example of the ducks in CC - an animation that in my eyes does not really add much to gameplay visuals (with all due respect, so sorry), except a huge hit on performance (at least for folks with less "beefy" rigs)... I must admit that I cringe when I hear requests to add animated rabbits and similar small (tiny) game to roam complete maps. For me the buck stops at (confined) pasture animals of at least a reasonable size, e.g. goats or such...
* Modders might also want to check back with Denis dela Rive who did complete research, chains and balancing for Fur Trapping, Fur Trade, Trapper's Hut producing fur, Furrier's Hut, as well as other chains... ;)
I agree with the animation, and I had Denis' help with the turpentine and pitch additions, I think he has the chains and balancing worked out for all sorts of wonderful things! I will ask him about furs.
Quote from: Nominix on February 10, 2017, 08:21:36 PM
So modders dont have access to anything that can control time? No access to functions or an ability to write your own functions or at least grab some pre-exisiting time based variables?
Not that I know of, no way to make timed items at least. One thing we could do, I guess, is have the resource 'grow' like a tree or a crop but I'm not sure how that will work outside of a crop field or orchard. I know it takes a certain time for things to grow and mature when spawned, but I'm not sure if that is linked to seasons or just time from when it was spawned. I'll have to look into it, but I'm still learning my way though the code.
Quote from: QueryEverything on February 10, 2017, 07:45:54 PM
I think it's all possible to an extent, (and I'm not a modder, the Dev & mods will be able to correct my assumptions) after all, fisherman catch the invisible fish, the new marine proteins are also invisible, until there is a basket of them.
Timing however would need to be based on something, maybe the leaves code (BL team have talked about this, and that's how Shockpuppet & @kralyerg have modded some of their mods), but, would it work on a building, or at least connected to a profession? Like the fields, could the fields code be hijacked for their timing. When the fields are fallow then the hunters trap XYZ, when they are tended the hunters ABC, it's connected to the seasons, but, I don't know if that's how the leaves codes work ... All just thinking this outloud, I have no(!!) ideas :D
I don't need to see rabbits, I just need them to appear in the storage :D
Rather than visual 'traps', what about little warren & nests on the ground in the radius? (If a radius us used). Much like the blossoming gatherables, and in @kralyerg's Krazy collection, all the different foresters, the trappers area, radius etc, will produce little mounds of warrens, nests etc on the ground, and along the river; just like the little basket of berries & grapes etc.
Well, I believe that fishermen still catch a resource that is 'live' in the water, you just don't see it. That is how it is effected by area and other buildings etc. In fact, I think that is something that the vanilla game did well, there is no building that produces something from nothing, they are all limited in some way. The shore huts etc. however, they produce something from nothing based on the Apiary code. There is no input, no radius, no cost asides from work time. It would be very easy to code this up, but I think I would rather get away from that and find ways of making my food production buildings a bit more costly, even if it is just an input like grain, or traps, or nets etc. Having the fur and meat harvested in a radius from spawned resources will do this, just with the gatherer.
I like the idea of warrens and nests, I never thought about that! You could even spawn a beaver lodge on the shore.
about fishermen, they produce fish from nothing just like my towers. there is no "fish population" in the water. i think we can reproduce a "fake" circle but the purpose of them are very specific and hard coded inside the game
i would think though, there would surely a way to make spawn traps (with dead animal trapped in it) only at a certain "temperature" (and not time). natural resources like berries, onion mushrooms... spawn between a range of temperature and usually when starting to be too cold, they dispawn and stop respawning till temp is back over certain numbers. i think the opposite can be done by playing with numbers , negative numbers :)
Luke the developper had no idea of how to animate things at begining, so he learned in a certain way and he made his code to work with his "special" way ^^ coding animations is already hard, and i did bought an animated mesh back at begining , for nothing, cause it was made as they most do it, and was not the way Luke learned ^^
Quote from: Necora on February 10, 2017, 08:42:18 PM
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Well, I believe that fishermen still catch a resource that is 'live' in the water, you just don't see it. That is how it is effected by area and other buildings etc. In fact, I think that is something that the vanilla game did well, there is no building that produces something from nothing, they are all limited in some way. The shore huts etc. however, they produce something from nothing based on the Apiary code. There is no input, no radius, no cost asides from work time. It would be very easy to code this up, but I think I would rather get away from that and find ways of making my food production buildings a bit more costly, even if it is just an input like grain, or traps, or nets etc. Having the fur and meat harvested in a radius from spawned resources will do this, just with the gatherer.
I like the idea of warrens and nests, I never thought about that! You could even spawn a beaver lodge on the shore.
That would be excellent and perhaps tied with the temperatures idea that
@RedKetchup suggested (which is how I assume the fields work), then
@Nominix idea about trapping different animals in different seasons would work.
There's (I assume) splicing of code & branching different parts, but, could it be done?
I like the feel of this :D
@RedKetchup oh right, I thought that there was at least something in the code that you fished, that was the reason given for not being able to fish anything other than 'fish'.
Also, do you know how to make a natural resource drop two items rather than 1?
I coded this up as a gatherer, and I can make 'NaturalResourceBeaver' turn into 'RawMaterialPelt' OR 'RawMaterialGame' but I want it to be harvested as 'RawMaterialPelt' AND 'RawMaterialGame'... so 'NaturalResourceBeaver' turns into two items when harvested not one. Is this possible?
I tried stealing the bit of code from the cows, where they turn into leather and beef once killed, but that didn't do anything, infact the trappers would harvest the beaver, but produce nothing.
i never played with the natural ressources yet....
but i can check at some point :)
No worries, I send a message to Kralyerg, if any one knows it is him!
Are prices on the trader fixed/static or is there any way to make them variable ?
Edit - or should I say...is there some way to change them during runtime?
traders : trading posts ?
they most keep it same but
if you place a specific order in the tab order, they will ask you like +50%
if it is the food merchant, he will accept firewood only at lower cost (like giving you 3 instead of 4)
but thats mostly that.
So then its not really possible to do something like prices based on supply and demand? Short supply and or high demand means higher prices, too much supply and or low demand means lower prices.
Quote from: Nominix on February 11, 2017, 12:47:18 PM
So then its not really possible to do something like prices based on supply and demand? Short supply and or high demand means higher prices, too much supply and or low demand means lower prices.
You can't change the values in game, you'd have to change the template file then add it as a mod. I guess you could code up a few mods with varying values if you wanted to aim at a few resources. It will be a lot of work though, each individual resource has its own template file, within which is a trade value number. This is the number that needs to be changed, for every resource you are interested in changing during game play. You can then package it up as a few mods of different values, and you might be able to swap them in and out as you go in the mod menu, re loading the game each time.
ok thank you both for the answers.
the north mod works like that. TOM changed the values due to the climate and far northern location.some food is more valued than others.
Quote from: Necora on February 11, 2017, 09:27:17 AM
Also, do you know how to make a natural resource drop two items rather than 1?
I coded this up as a gatherer, and I can make 'NaturalResourceBeaver' turn into 'RawMaterialPelt' OR 'RawMaterialGame' but I want it to be harvested as 'RawMaterialPelt' AND 'RawMaterialGame'... so 'NaturalResourceBeaver' turns into two items when harvested not one. Is this possible?
I tried stealing the bit of code from the cows, where they turn into leather and beef once killed, but that didn't do anything, infact the trappers would harvest the beaver, but produce nothing.
@Necora how is the deer coded? It drops leather, venison & bonemeal, and it's freerange. That may be different than cattle, as cattle you are farming, but the deer, you are hunting?
Quote from: QueryEverything on February 11, 2017, 03:29:11 PM
@Necora how is the deer coded? It drops leather, venison & bonemeal, and it's freerange. That may be different than cattle, as cattle you are farming, but the deer, you are hunting?
The same way as cows and things... I copied that bit of code over but nothing was produced when harvested... unless I have messed something else up but I didn't change anything else apart from the mesh and UI.
@Necora oh wow, I didn't think it would work the same, but, I suppose, herdsman are 'hunting', but in a defined area.
How interesting, thanks for that :D
Well it turns out it is not possible for a wild resource to drop two items, only one. I was hoping there could be a beaver lodge or grouse nest or trapped coyote on the ground, which when the trapper harvested it, it produced both game meat and pelts. But alas, this will never be.
So there are a couple of options, let me know what you think is the best... or if you can think of any more...
1) We duplicate the natural resources, and pay around with spawn chance and timing. For each duplicate, one will produce meat and the other fur or feathers or pelts depending on the animal. Now, this might turn out to be a lot of added resources, so might be too much.
2) Each natural resource produces 1 item, a generic 'Game' resource, or it could be 'Beaver', 'Coyote', 'Grouse' etc. Initially, these are not usable, they are textiles. They then get processed by a second building, that turns them into meat and furs etc. I'm not sure if this will be possible with multiple species, we might have to have one butcher type building for each one, the same way that CC has butchers for cows, deer, sheep etc. that turn one species into multiple products.
I forgot the pictures...
Genius
@Necora back in the car again, I'll be back late tonight and have a think.
A production line wouldn't be bad, with a companion protein storage and 'textiles' storage to go with it, like a little butchers shed.
Why not? Most hunters would process their stock on site, trap, then butcher, then store. Waste nothing.
Companion to Deep Forest & your Forestry, I am liking the possibilities :D :D :D
i would think it could be coded the same as deer and just change "deer" to wild game.get meat,skins instead of leather,and bonemeal.thinking outside the box we create a building that acts as a butcher taking in wild game and giving out various meat cuts of various animals,similar deisng as KIDD did with the garden seeds.just don't say the word "butcher",that gets people hung up. since the way butchers have been set so far,they will only take 1 type.but the idea has been done.
all that being said,you still have the main problem of area limits. my understanding is 1 game tile can create 1 item rather that be a tree,rock,crop,fish,berry,apple,etc. so we can only produce so much and the more different items we have ,the less and less of each we will get. this is why i came up with the idea to "fake it" so to speak. the forest could be redesigned to create "wild items" and then a worker at a shop could split the "wild item" into the different types of goods he wants.be it fruit and veggys or roots, maple sap,apples,pine,etc. each shop would use the "wild item" and give out different goods but that again will take several shops. and of course it is a modding nightmare.it would function well though. 1 gatherer collecting everything on a map. he stores those goodies and the shop keepers collect them. say the shop keeper gets 1 basket of wild whatever,he can then produce 10 of several items from it.
take meat,we'll call it "wild game". gatherer comes back with the wild items and stores them. the trapper goes gets a basket of 25 wild items sorts them in a shed or by a beaver lodge and produces say 25 rabbit stew meat,10 wild turkeys,100 bear steaks,and 50 deer roasts. thus you can get more items than you could have by being limited by the area squares. another shop would take the wild items and sort it giving you maple sap,apples,pine,etc in whatever amounts the modder chose. or the sap boiler could take the wild items directly and so could the cider press. the idea being that the so called "wild item" is anything collected in the forest. it isn't confined to being a fruit,veggy,root,piece of deer,a bucket of apples,etc. it is everything until the shop or press or butcher sorts it.
i hope you all can understand the my rough explanation of the concept. it's thinking outside the box but using the game limits to our advantage.
thing is it does not have to be all designed at one time. set the gathering item as a more generic term like wild items so you have flexability to add to it later. instead of naming the item like wild game,then you are limited to meat and skins,furs,leater.the more generic term leaves open the possabilty of further adding to th forest resources later.somebody wants honey,they create a beekeeper shop that takes "wild item" and produces honey.somebody wants elephant ivory on a more tropical map,they could do the same thing using the same gathering codes even. i like things simple. to me this would save modders time in developing. they wouldn't have to reinvent code,they could copy it and just change a term or the gathering hut building and add a shop. the buildings may have to be designed each time but not the coding.
taking the trapping idea. use decorations of traps,beaver lodge,maybe some foxes,rabits, and they can be placed in the forest or outside on the edge of the circle.develop a cleaning area with a nice table to clean and skin the animals. decide and tweak the output production numbers.then do you want a game meat butcher? add a butcher to take wild game and split into various meat cuts. the furs and skins can go to a taxidermist to be further developed into clothing options.
to me this is the best way to get around the game limits. and i hope it would make the modders work easier so they don't have to spend lots of time rewriting code.
Quote from: brads3 on February 11, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
taking the trapping idea. use decorations of traps,beaver lodge,maybe some foxes,rabits, and they can be placed in the forest or outside on the edge of the circle.develop a cleaning area with a nice table to clean and skin the animals. decide and tweak the output production numbers.then do you want a game meat butcher? add a butcher to take wild game and split into various meat cuts. the furs and skins can go to a taxidermist to be further developed into clothing options.
to me this is the best way to get around the game limits. and i hope it would make the modders work easier so they don't have to spend lots of time rewriting code.
Sounds like a very efficient use of available assets. I think the meat aspect is a bit odd as Im not sure many people outside the trapper themselves would eat the meat as trap lines were many miles long and even today checking a trap line can take several days so the meat is mostly if not totally spoiled.
Another point of interest is that steel traps were not really in use. The main traps were deadfalls and snares. A deadfall is just a heavy log propped up by some very light trigger that when the animal goes after the bait it hits the trigger (normally a small stick) and the log falls on it killing it instantly and snares were hung 6 inches off the ground along a game path and the animal simply walked into it, head first, getting the loop of the snare around its neck. The snare (most of the time) didnt strangle the animal but instead kinked and prevented the animal from backing out of it. There are a number of variations on snares but most were loop type or drag sets. The drag set allows the animal to run and drags a trebble hook or any kind of hook that gets caught in the brush and tangles it up thus holding it in place till the trapper checks his lines.
My point being - youd never be able to see the traps so there really is no reason to show the graphics of them. I have taken people up to a deadfall and pointed at it and they still couldnt tell it was anything other than the normal forest floor debris and snares are so thin they are easily mistaken for small branches of a tree.So if the graphics become an issue, I dont think it would hurt anything at all to leave them out.Not to say I dont like the idea of graphics for them, I just dont think it should be a roadblock. If that makes sense. There is also the meat thing...if you have deadfalls at the end of your trap line...yeah I wouldnt eat it unless i was going to die of starvation and even then...it would be questionable if you could even keep it down. Normally the carcases spcifically the glands and organs were chopped up and left to rot in a container to be used as bait.
From my perspective and what I really am looking at when I want to go in game and start setting up a trap line is that I want my town to be built on the fur trade so I need to procure lots of furs and get good prices for them. So if there is a way to get multiple specific types of furs this would be Ideal. and if it is possible to somehow tie the map conditions (Harsh,mild ect) to the furs this would also be ideal. The colder and harsher the climate the better your furs will be , the more you can trade them for. So im ok with no graphics and no meat stuff as its realistic that you wouldnt really see or have those, but id really like to have a diverse selection of furs and fur pricing as well as perhaps a clothing line using them. The economy surrounding the furs is much much more important to me than anything else. But thats just me.
One VERY good thing about Brads idea is that those 'wild items' can be set
non-edible and be stored indefinitely and traded if you want.
Every modder has an open possibilty to create a gathering place for just
one product. A small (I like that) building for gathering mushrooms
can skip the 'wild items' and produce mushrooms directly.
Or as Nominix said - fur trade.
And if you put -
int _maxInstances = 3;
in the code, you can limit the number of buildings.
It is so easy to cheat and spam the map with buildings. :)
Quote from: brads3 on February 11, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
i would think it could be coded the same as deer and just change "deer" to wild game.get meat,skins instead of leather,and bonemeal.
Unfortunately not, some things can have multiple items, all of the animals can, but others can not, so static spawning resources can not. If you code them like deer, they produce nothing.
I find the wild items idea interesting. There are a couple of issues though, first, it will not be compatible with any other mods, unless everyone does it. Depending on which is on top, either the new wild items will not spawn or the original items will not spawn, and the related gatherers will be useless. Second, it means at least one other profession on top of the gatherer to sort it, which makes it harder for early game playing. A gatherer is one of the first buildings I build because it is instant, reliable food, almost. Plus, there will be an awful lot of food to be broken into, so you're talking either a slow supply of each at random, which will not help with production chains, or a lot of different buildings making one particular resource (or a group of a couple of resources). Either way, I have the feeling this might be just too much for the whole forest area to be done like this.
Also, the limits of a radius are an important part of the game, it prevents the 'something from nothing' conundrum. Producing 100 of one item from 25 of another, even if the trade value is high in the second item, is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
That being said, the generic resource would work on a small scale, such as the idea of a generic fur resource if it only gets turned into a handful of random outputs rather than a whole suit of possibilities. We could have the 'wild game' harvested by a trapper, this wild game is spawned by vanilla trees and any other tree combination you want, and the trapper goes out and 'traps' them. It is then taken to a skinner or related person who turns takes 1 wild game and turns randomly into fur, pelts, feathers, meat etc.
I'm sure we can get the wild game to spawn as 'F-variants' so that we can have some variation in beaver lodges, fox holes, grouse nests etc. on the map.
Quote from: kid1293 on February 12, 2017, 12:45:36 AM
One VERY good thing about Brads idea is that those 'wild items' can be set
non-edible and be stored indefinitely and traded if you want.
Every modder has an open possibilty to create a gathering place for just
one product. A small (I like that) building for gathering mushrooms
can skip the 'wild items' and produce mushrooms directly.
Or as Nominix said - fur trade.
And if you put -
int _maxInstances = 3;
in the code, you can limit the number of buildings.
It is so easy to cheat and spam the map with buildings. :)
Yup the non-edible part is good, I've started doing that with some of the other things like maple sap. But, you would have to re-introduce mushrooms, for example, because this would over-ride current gatherer items.
Quote from: Nominix on February 12, 2017, 12:36:03 AM
From my perspective and what I really am looking at when I want to go in game and start setting up a trap line is that I want my town to be built on the fur trade so I need to procure lots of furs and get good prices for them. So if there is a way to get multiple specific types of furs this would be Ideal. and if it is possible to somehow tie the map conditions (Harsh,mild ect) to the furs this would also be ideal. The colder and harsher the climate the better your furs will be , the more you can trade them for. So im ok with no graphics and no meat stuff as its realistic that you wouldnt really see or have those, but id really like to have a diverse selection of furs and fur pricing as well as perhaps a clothing line using them. The economy surrounding the furs is much much more important to me than anything else. But thats just me.
Hmm, I actually agree about the meat. I added it because I know it has been asked for before. My interest is purely in the furs too. If we don't do meat, we can have some diversity in furs, like pelts, furs, feathers, and any more you can think of.
I'm not sure if we can link values like that though. It might be a case of having a different set of furs spawned under different start conditions, but I've not had a go a them so I don't know how it works. We could also have an override mod, so if you decided you wanted to start on the colder maps you could just load the 'cold fur' override on top.
Yeah that sounds great, lets not do the meats and add in a few specifics. Id say add in anything that sounds appropriate to you for the time. The ones you mentioned sound great.
I think I misread your reply so i edited mine :) Doing too many things at once today.
Let me get this straight.
Are you going to spawn these items? (furs)
Or are they automagically produced in a small building?
if you are making spawn furs... better to take my .rsc because if you change the numbers.... you will change mine too :P
and depending if people put yours first or mine first.... people will have 2 different results :(
Quote from: kid1293 on February 12, 2017, 10:16:53 AM
Let me get this straight.
Are you going to spawn these items? (furs)
Or are they automagically produced in a small building?
I was going to spawn individual animals, but that is not feasable. So instead I am going to spawn a generic 'NaturalResourceWildAnimal' which will be harvested by a trapper to produce a generic 'RawMaterialWildAnimal', which will be a textile. This can then be processed by a butcher or a skinner to produce furs, feathers, meat, what ever you want.
So
@RedKetchup you furs can be produced from the wild animal which will keep your numbers the same.
@RedKetchup I found the fur drop extremely low. It took months, and months to build the hospital because with 2 towers there just wasn't enough fur :( I ended up not setting up any more hospitals on the map.
If meat was taken out of the equation (for realism as well as ease of getting the game to work), I'm fine with that. It just seems odd to me that a whole beast wouldn't be used in some way - but - that being said, I didn't live in Colonial or Medieval times, hahaha! :) But, I get why :D :D
we cant make drop 2 things in same time, a meat AND a fur (or leather)...
so it is totally random :) you ve got bad RNG probably.
setup a 3rd and a 4th towers maybe a good option :)
Good plan, starting a new map today, I'll check it out :) Thank you
@RedKetchup
ok,i am not a modder but am trying to understand some of the coding mechanics. my take is thatwhen LUKE gave modders the codes on some things he only gave half of it.and the other half is hard coded. if i follow NECORA right,we can not add items to the original gatherer?? say the gatherer is to pick up honey as well as the items he already does pick up?? so we can't just say the gatherer is to collect what he does now+ 1 other item?? if we can then we could still have the start capability and just add "wild items" to it. therefore we aren't upsetting th balances and mods that are already designed.
upon reading NORM's explanation, having it fur only does make sence. especially since REd already started to add diffeent hunting meat options.
as to game starts i have arguements with the game itself on how it pulls from the mod order. my understanding is the top mod is loaded 1st and then subsequent mods add to it. but have found cases where the lower mod had more power and overrides the top mod. i have the blacksmith tool mod and to me it should impact all blacksmiths below it and all my tool sheds should be able to produce stone tools and iron tools. but it never does that. it only affects a select few. i shake my head on this 1. the way the game reads mod lists is more complex than the guide rule. in general my understanding is if 2 mods use the same terms they will conflict and only 1 will load. but if we call things by different names both will load. i thought this would stop a mod from killing another mod.
what controls the spawning of items on the map? does it go by the start mod and conditions? or does the items spawn after the gatherer is placed? this is where we push the game limits and the area limit.
i agree that we don't want to set outputs too high and it becomes a cheat. the hope is to take the area limit control and give it to the modders who then can limit and adjust numbers to find a good balance.a gatherer of 1 can only colect so much and in a large population a player would send more gatherers from the hut. the idea is to allow more different products from the forest but in a balanced volume. say a guy and his son go checking trapa,while the dad was resetting the traps,the son would pick the berries or apples nearby.
Quote from: RedKetchup on February 12, 2017, 12:18:27 PM
we cant make drop 2 things in same time, a meat AND a fur (or leather)...
so it is totally random :) you ve got bad RNG probably.
setup a 3rd and a 4th towers maybe a good option :)
I also find that furs are very hard to come by. I built 13 of the towers and furs were really hard to come by as well as some of the towers (8 to be exact) refused to produce anything. even after 3 years. I have 9 in a row directly beside one another and only 1 will produce and its a very low amount. Not sure what the issue is. Im continuing to play around with them though on a new game to see if it happens again.
But yeah the fur amount seems really low and venison is really high. Seems venison meat goes over 200 I think it is on every producing station but 1 and thats the one that is barely producing anything.
Edit - the issue can be replicated by building a large number of watch towers at once (in this case 7 at once). It starts pushing people out of houses even with plenty of housing available and some will have no tools regardless of the amount you have stored.
If you immediately build more houses quickly you can rectify the issue, but in my case , being winter all died of starvation/cold -see watch tower 3 pic. Game is completely bugged no recovery for it. People continuously loose housing and everyone dies.
this is because they cant go work ??? you blocked the entrances of the towers :P
haha ok...ooops
maybe it was for punishing you to put them in a row like that ^^
why not distribute them nicely over the area ?? and do something more..... esthetics ? ^^
i was just playing with them to see what they would produce and seeing how many furs I could get. I actually am working on a nice asthetic one but keep playing with the palisades and thier connections. I definitely want to set up a good one. I really like the mod its got all kinds of potential. I also have a few spread out but started spamming them to get more furs, which is when I ran into my blocking mistake.
Yeah, I built a camp with 5 towers (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1451.msg27844#msg27844) and they all performed nicely... :)