WIP: Natural Diversity

[RedKetchup]

Pasture shows the correct number @RedKetchup . Not really a big issue as it does not stop other animal trades and the moving them to pasture. Eventually they will die off, or so it appears.

if they are assigned then it is just a lack of update of the pathing issue. they will still work as usual, and when they will slaughter one cause too old... the resources will simply fall on the ground near the TP. citizens still will go pickup the food and leather though

[QueryEverything]

@Kristahfer glad you liked the joke

Run a quick test.

Disabled the Better stock piles.  Try and place a Log (using the specialized ones), 1x30 - it should work without it.
If so, just leave the mod disabled.  You shouldn't need it - not with the Unified Mod, and the MM mods in place, as they both have specialised mods listed.

I found that only storage boosters would end up working, and now I can place 1x30 long stock piles, excellent for forestry areas etc. 

I have mine listed:

New Flora / Pine / NatDiv series
General Mods - inc Unified etc
MM/CC (inc compat) mods

The very top are game changers, map alterers, start changers, UI changes, music etc, storage expanders and so on.
Sometimes it can take a while to sort bugs out, but for the most part it's fairly straight forward. 

[tanypredator]

Hmmm... What is the weight of new foods? Seems like it is large. I can store about 400 units of meat in Kid's deco storages, but only 40 Wild Cereals!

[brads3]

after way too many tests and reworking the mod order,i can report this. the way i have the order now is RED's trade fix,flax patch,pine 104,forget orchard,and then the NAT DIV 1.1.below this i have the forever forest mod which is most likely obsoleted and not working due to the order.these are my topmost mods in order from the top down.  with this order the pine vanilla gatherer collects around 600 food the 1st year.if i clear the rocks and run this farther, theory is the gatherer will collect more next year. very reasonable and no complaints with that.my herbalist is 0.he is working as a laborer. if i scroll the herb tool over the circle,there are about 4 or 5 herbs.as laborers clear land they are not finding herbs either.knowing a map can affect things,i ran 3 tests. numbers are fairly consistent.
     now if i move the forget about orchard mod below the NAT DIV,the production changes dramatically.my gatherer produces 1000 more than now.my trapper shows progress.the herbalist stays busy. he leaves his area when there is no herbs and rerturns when herbs appear.
  the orchard mod makes the orchards produce fruit the 1st year and doesn't require the trees to be cut and replanted every  few years. the conflicting files read tree growth crs. it is claiming it is conflicted with the NAT DIV and  shows no conflicts with the pine mod. i'm not sure what files the NAT DIV is using or needs to affect trees,let alone crop fruit trees.why it affects the herbs and seems to affect the trapper i have no ideas.
    in theory if i move the orchard mod down 1 below the ND,it will not work.it does claim all the tree growth files are not loaded.hopefully that gives BARTENDER some info on how it functions and clues to the mystery.

[Kristahfer]

@QueryEverything , I ran the test that you suggested. As you surmised, disabling Better Stockpile Storage and placing a specialized stockpile (Logs) worked without issue.


Thank you for that suggestion.


The only reason I have the mods without any conflict at the bottom is because I am lazy and use the Move To Top to re-position my mods where I want them, then adjust for conflicts. Placing the non-conflicting mods at the bottom means I can reduce button pushing. Since you indicated that they may work better at the top of the list I will move them and see what happens.


Again, thanks for your suggestions.


Your and the others in this forum deserve great thanks for sharing your experience and skills with us all.

[QueryEverything]

@Kristahfer that's excellent news about stock piles   Sometimes something may look right in game - but the 1x30 is always my 'litmus test', if I can't do that after installing a stockpile mod, then there is something wrong because I know it can be done.

I used to always leave the greens down the bottom, but things like UI changes etc I like to have up the top to make sure I can quick change them etc, and some of the UI ones may have fine print that they need to be near the top, so just double check. 

If you have any other load questions feel free to PM, or start a new thread, (poor @Bartender hahaha ) you can always Tag me, I'll be happy to help you in another thread.

[tanypredator]

Some more testing. I'm playing with pure NatDiv, without other spawn mods.

I was able to get enough firewood for my small village of about 15 adults by manuall gathering (and I've noted that foresters gather firewood too, but as the result they gather less wood). I even have some to sale.

I have 2 reapers and 1 thresher, and I get about 450-500 food  from them.

And my forest gatherers don't get enough food. I have 1 and it gathers about 450-550 food, which is Ok, but as I can see (not tested) there is nothing to gather for any more gatherers - no more vegs left ungathered. And they gather almost no berries, because it's hard to find separate places for forester AND reaper AND gatherer. I suppose that firewood occupy forest food space.

Berries need time to "grow", but that cannot be determined visually, as well as their maturity. I don't know how many berries I've gathered manually, which really gave 4-10 berries, because they were not grown.

And just to have it all here in one place - new foods weight is too big.

[Bartender]

Oh dear, that's a lot of replies to sift through . I'll try to answer all the questions and remarks, but please let me know if I forgot anything .

Hi all
I initially felt that the food production with grasses/salads was a bit on the slow side, that I just wasn't getting enough food production up and running for the workers families, then, I moved the buildings closer together and the storage next to each other, and that worked much, much better.

.....

I just found that the fishing spots were too hard to place, even though they were designed to be on the small streams, on a small map, I only had a few places where I could place them - I think I'd like them to be more forgiving in placement.

...

Because of the long edges, (and that's ok, just a lot of naked space in some cases of placement), I wonder if perhaps @despo_20 could design some protein storage that fits into that area between the stream and the roadway, it would need to be ghosted, and 2 wide - some baskets, or something in stone (like a medieval ice cooler?)

It was one of the things I had missed, was some storage that came with the mod - I know, I know - there are buttzillions of storage mods, why yours, but, I think it would fit into place there, a nice little puzzle piece.

...

---  Reeds - I loved these, these were a delight to see when my map first spawned, the brought back some frond memories of some dried ones a relative used to have.

I wonder though, given that they can only spawn at x height, and the game can't create an oval - can you at least make the radius a little bigger though?  I felt that I wasn't getting enough 'bang for my tile' the way it was.  By making the radius bigger - the reeds can spread out along the banks right/left further and give some more room to the building?

****  I know this was mentioned over on BL, but I wanted to put it here before I forgot to again, the reeds aren't matching in with CC - now, I know there are those here who don't care for such things (and that's ok), but those that do use the reeds had hoped that both reeds would be compatible so that your reeds would work in CC buildings, and CC reeds would work in your buildings, and most importantly, we would end up with only 1 reeds in our inventory, not 2
If you & Despo decided not to do it this way - have both the reeds use the same name (or template etc), that's cool - it's just a nice idea to know

....

*ps:  I know somewhere in one of the help threads others talked about a RIOT program for optimising textures, to get the balance between the good and the optimal, I'm not sure if you had used that, if you'd run the textures through any optimiziation, that may help with the lag.

Thank you for the elaborate feedback ! I tried to cut out the things I can respond to, so that this post doesn't get too long .
- We're going to boost the production of wild cereals and wild salad slightly, so that it matches better to other sources.
- It's not easy to give enough freedom for the placement of the fish trap and reaper's boat, while still ensuring that they allign nicely with the river banks. We'll try to see if it's possible to make it a bit more lenient though.
- I know for a fact that despo already has plans for different storage areas, though they will come in a subsequent update .
- The reeds should be compatible with CC, as promised. This was a typo just like the Egg duplication tragedy, but it will be fixed in the full version .
- We'll see if the radius of the reaper's boat can be made bigger without things looking too weird, we've set it quite strict currently.
- I have used the RIOT program, but thank you for suggesting it again. It's a great tool for making the texture files smaller indeed!

It is odd as both the egg and cow issues appeared after loading NatDiv2. Prior to that the orginal NatDiv was in the same place with the same mods above it. Did not have the issues with the orginal NatDiv. I have nothing in my mod list that changes colors of cows at all.

It seems that this issue was resolved already, but I just wanted to confirm that this is definitely not a result of our mod, we do nothing with eggs and cows .

Hmmm... What is the weight of new foods? Seems like it is large. I can store about 400 units of meat in Kid's deco storages, but only 40 Wild Cereals!

You are absolutely right! I probably copied the files from a heavy resource and forgot to change that number. The weight will be 1 for both the cereals and the salad, like it is for all food resources.

Some more testing. I'm playing with pure NatDiv, without other spawn mods.

I was able to get enough firewood for my small village of about 15 adults by manuall gathering (and I've noted that foresters gather firewood too, but as the result they gather less wood). I even have some to sale.

I have 2 reapers and 1 thresher, and I get about 450-500 food  from them.

And my forest gatherers don't get enough food. I have 1 and it gathers about 450-550 food, which is Ok, but as I can see (not tested) there is nothing to gather for any more gatherers - no more vegs left ungathered. And they gather almost no berries, because it's hard to find separate places for forester AND reaper AND gatherer. I suppose that firewood occupy forest food space.

Berries need time to "grow", but that cannot be determined visually, as well as their maturity. I don't know how many berries I've gathered manually, which really gave 4-10 berries, because they were not grown.

And just to have it all here in one place - new foods weight is too big.

Thank you again!

- The numbers for the manual gathering of firewood seem a bit high.. I'll look into that, because it was definitely not intended to be that strong.
- The forest food numbers are supposed to be lower than in vanilla, as the gatherer will get more food from the meadows and from the berry bushes now. In all my testing I haven't been able to figure out the exact influence of adding more spawning elements to a 'parent' resource, but I don't think that the inclusion of the branches the problem. After all, our mod actually reduces the amount of resources that are being spawned in the forest.
- The berry numbers are very dependant on how big the group of bushes is, with only a few there won't be a lot of production indeed. How big the groups are seems to depend quite a lot on the map seed, I've tried to find a proper balance but it has been very difficult to find the right balance. If more people feel that the output is too low we could increase the group sizes.
- The berries 'grow' to maturity within a month, which seems to be the shortest possible time. If I could I'd change this ofcourse, but unfortunately I haven't been able to do it. I'll try again if I can find a workaround, otherwise I think it might be best to indeed make them 'grow' in size. Even though that's less realistic, it at least provides a visual cue.

[brads3]

with the extreme slow down that this brings,is a lite version planned?it is odd that the upgraded version affects the forget about orchard mod but the original did not. any chance the reed fix can be added into the original version as it is it knocks out all reeds?

[tanypredator]

Great! Nice to hear that you are working on that. I think, you can decrease the spawn chance on branches - that would decrease their yield and, if there is a correlation nevertheless, increase the amount of other plants.

And I suggest you again to include wild roses and bees - that would compensate the hardness of berry gathering The only note is that if you are going to add any other red berries later, maybe it would be more accurate to rename rose hips to some more abstract name, such as "red berries"

[Abandoned]

@Bartender, I had no slowdown or lag with the light version but I would very much like the firewood branches added to it.  I think the yield is just fine as it is and would not want to see it decreased.  The lag is quite notable when it rains or I move the map over thick forest.  Pausing when moving locations helps.

I would not want to see New Flora added to this mod. There is enough already.  Those that want to and can, can use it in addition to NatDiv.  When you load NF first you get no firewood.  I use New Flora often and would not use it with this mod now that I am using NatDiv on Meadowbrook map, I would prefer to use them on separate maps, to pick and choose at my discretion.  It would be nice if @tanypredator could add decorative cattails (or reeds as they are call in NatDiv) to her water and Other Decorations mod.  The reeds look very nice.  The meadows are beautiful. 

[The Pilgrim]

@Bartender   I am having serious lag issues even on a pretty high end system. Unfortunately this is the only mod that is causing the issues. This is happening on everything larger than a small map.
It looks stunningly beautiful, but the lag issue has to get cleared up or, at least for me, the mod will only be usable in the light version.

[tanypredator]

I would not want to see New Flora added to this mod. There is enough already.

That is why I first suggested to make just a version with NF included. But I understand, that it could be boring to update many separate versions. The other way is if I add branches to trees' spawn in NF.

I think I have read that Bartender was going to make deco vesion of his plants after a while.

[Abandoned]

@tanypredator those branches added to New Flora would be great  You know how much I love NF, I have the old version with the original blue flax.  If I don't use NF I often use just the wild oats or linen production separate. Love the wild bees.  A version with those branches would be wonderful.

Now that you mention it, I think I too read something about deco plants.  That will be nice, those plants are beautiful in the meadow.

[tanypredator]

@tanypredator those branches added to New Flora would be great  You know how much I love NF, I have the old version with the original blue flax.  If I don't use NF I often use just the wild oats or linen production separate. Love the wild bees.  A version with those branches would be wonderful.

That is up to @Bartender to decide. Either he include my resources into a version of NatDiv (because it would just be easier and because I'm not available sometimes...), or he gives me branches resource and I include them, or maybe both... I would be Ok with any.